I'm getting back in to shape, here's how I plan on doing that

[SIG_Fiend]

The human body is resilient. It makes no sense to me that the body would choose to start breaking down muscle BEFORE fat. That's like saying your body is pre-programmed to commit suicide. It just doesn't make sense. I'm not saying there won't be any muscle loss, but it seems to me that a majority would be fat loss. After reading some of the things I've read, basically the jist was that you would lose some lean muscle mass at first during a fast, however your body would primarily turn to fat to digest, but after a certain indeterminate point when the fat just wasn't cutting it anymore then you would go into a much more catabolic state and start breaking down serious muscle mass. Maybe it's slightly different and less effective for someone that is already in great shape and has a low body fat percentage. For someone like me though it seems like it could be beneficial as I'd have plenty of fat to burn before there would be any significant muscle loss. Either way, I don't have a PHD and neither do you (Alan), and we are both overweight, and we could probably argue about this for hours so I'll just leave it at that.

Oh well, that's the end of that because today I broke the fast. F*ck fasting. I got 2 good, solid days in, and I actually do feel pretty darn good. I have this undescribable "clean" feeling. Normally, even while eating more healthy I'd still have occasional problems with bloating and would just somehow feel different. After fasting just two days, I feel better somehow. And it's not the placebo effect either, I do physically feel better. Though anyways, I started to get a horrible headache today and was really disliking the loss of energy feeling. It is my understanding from what I've read and what my friend has told me (the one that has been fasting off and on) that there are periods well into a fast where you can actually experience a raise in energy, and then there are declines where you definitely feel weaker. Obviously any temporary increase in energy is not exactly enough energy to stand up under any real physical exertion since you wouldn't have been eating for so long. Either way, I am really disliking the thought of even having to feel weak and tired all the time. I would much rather be building muscle and feeling weak and tired from having worked out a lot, as at least then I would be building muscle to help burn more fat. I may still fast in the future for 1-3 days at a time, especially if I ever start to feel bad for any reason like diet or something. So right now I'm just going to skip over that part and start working on my diet. I'm going to wakeup early tomorrow and start doing some moderate weights, and start getting organized for a more structured routine and diet for next week. I did lose 3-4lbs in the last 2 days at least.

Ultimately my goal is to end up getting in similar physical shape and appearance as the actor Ryan Reynolds did when training for the movie Blade Trinity:

Apparently he got down to 6-8% body fat. I realize that's going to take a TON of work to get there, but what the F else am I gonna do!

 

[htxred]

its extremely hard to stay at 6-8%,. generally most people maintain around 8 to 10, i stayed around 12 for a while.

the body would turn to muscle first before fat because muscle requires more calories to maintain then fat. think about it, your body runs on calories, if muscle requires more calories to maintain then fat, survival mode would deem it first up. food = energy, calorie is just a measurement of energy, therefore if your muscle requires more food, and there is no food coming into your body, your body will use muscle as food. its human nature, only a handful of not so well in the head people out there go for the fatty part of the steak before eating the nice thick meaty part. and reason for feeling the loss of energy would be because you cut off your fuel source, which is food. water does not have any calories, you're just keeping your body hydrated, theres no protein synthesis going on, replenishing glycogen levels, etc.

and it wouldnt be beneficial to consider fasting in the future if you choose to go the route of building muscle like the actor. when you get your lean mass on your body, you must maintain it, which means you have to continue to feed it. taking a 1-3 break from eating and only taking in water will not feed the muscles anything, disabling any type of hypertrophy or protein synthesis to take place.

food = good
food + water = great
food + water + discipline = success
water only = lot of peeing.

 

[baboon]

food = good
food + water = great
food + water + discipline = success
water only = lot of peeing.

I recently had some emergency surgery. First day in I.V.'s & a moraphine drip. Next thing you know more I.V. fluids & I cannot piss. That's never good and the fix is always worse.

At one point they were pumping in more fluids them my body could handle and I delevoped water blister where I was laying.

Needeless to say after 10 day of no food & mostly I.V. fluids my stomach shrank. Hospital food sucks especially a clear diet for the next 2 days.
Best weight lose I ever had.

 

[Texas1911]

The human body is resilient. It makes no sense to me that the body would choose to start breaking down muscle BEFORE fat. That's like saying your body is pre-programmed to commit suicide. It just doesn't make sense. I'm not saying there won't be any muscle loss, but it seems to me that a majority would be fat loss. After reading some of the things I've read, basically the jist was that you would lose some lean muscle mass at first during a fast, however your body would primarily turn to fat to digest, but after a certain indeterminate point when the fat just wasn't cutting it anymore then you would go into a much more catabolic state and start breaking down serious muscle mass. Maybe it's slightly different and less effective for someone that is already in great shape and has a low body fat percentage. For someone like me though it seems like it could be beneficial as I'd have plenty of fat to burn before there would be any significant muscle loss. Either way, I don't have a PHD and neither do you (Alan), and we are both overweight, and we could probably argue about this for hours so I'll just leave it at that.

What I am saying is common knowledge in the weight lifting world. That's why I've been telling you to consume protein while you fast.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

What I am saying is common knowledge in the weight lifting world. That's why I've been telling you to consume protein while you fast.

Yeah, you also told me you drink Monster constantly as a "vitamin" supplement. You are gonna drink yourself straight into diabetes with all the sugar and artificial crap Monster has in it. Doing a pure water fast and constantly drinking protein shakes, while being unable to actually exert myself and workout would mean I would gain weight fast. Sorry Alan, I ain't buyin it. So you wanna take that bet?

 

[Texas1911]

Yeah, you also told me you drink Monster constantly as a "vitamin" supplement. You are gonna drink yourself straight into diabetes with all the sugar and artificial crap Monster has in it. Doing a pure water fast and constantly drinking protein shakes, while being unable to actually exert myself and workout would mean I would gain weight fast. Sorry Alan, I ain't buyin it. So you wanna take that bet?

Monster Blue has 6 grams of sugar in the entire can. It also has 200% of the RDV of B2, B3, B6, and B12 in it.

The sugar is in the form of glucose, which is as basic as sugar gets.

For comparison, an apple has 10 grams of sugar in it.

Explain how someone that consumes 150 calories in a protein shake is going to rapidly gain weight during a fast? That is what a lower calorie protein shake will contain in a single serving. If you had two, you'd have sustainable protein for the day, and a whopping total of 300 calories.

 

[Shorts]

Hmm, I don't like it. As a Health and Fitness Edu (B.S.) and a trainer, going on a diet to crash your system from the beginning isn't smart. I haven't read through all the posts (yet) but I just wanted to step in right quick. Not only is that asking for trouble but it has no long term value, which is what a healthy lifestyle is intended to be.

I'll go through later with some specifics to follow up on the whys as I see them through each post.

Anyone else in fitness here?

 

[SIG_Fiend]

The sugar is in the form of glucose, which is as basic as sugar gets.

Uh no, the sugar in Monster blue is SUCRALOSE, aka Splenda, aka an artificial sweetener, meaning your Monster Blue is about as healthy as Diet Coke with a couple vitamins added, meaning not at all.

Don't worry, I'm not fasting anymore and don't know that I will again. Right now I'm working on a healthy diet. In fact I already had a few apples, a banana, oatmeal, granola, and other healthy stuff today and I'm about to eat a nectarine. My whole focus right now is trying to keep any artificial crap out of my diet.

I wonder what Shorts has to say about this new fangled Monster "supplement" idea. Sorry Alan but, you are not convincing me.

 

[Texas1911]

Uh no, the sugar in Monster blue is SUCRALOSE, aka Splenda, aka an artificial sweetener, meaning your Monster Blue is about as healthy as Diet Coke with a couple vitamins added, meaning not at all.

Don't worry, I'm not fasting anymore and don't know that I will again. Right now I'm working on a healthy diet. In fact I already had a few apples, a banana, oatmeal, granola, and other healthy stuff today and I'm about to eat a nectarine. My whole focus right now is trying to keep any artificial crap out of my diet.

I wonder what Shorts has to say about this new fangled Monster "supplement" idea. Sorry Alan but, you are not convincing me.

The sugar is GLUCOSE, it says so on the can.

Oh and in regards to Sucralose:

From Elmhurst University:

"Discovered in 1976, sucralose is 600 times sweeter than sugar and does not metabolize to produce energy, thus it does not contain calories. It is the only low calorie sweetener that is made from sugar, which has been changed so passes through the body unchanged and unmetabolized. Substituting for three alcohol groups on the sugar molecule with three chlorine atoms creates sucralose.

It is heat stable and can be used in cooking and baking or anywhere one would use sugar without losing its sweetness.


Sucralose is currently used in more than 30 countries and the FDA approved it in 1998 as a table top sweetener. It has been studied
for more than 20 years, and 110 published animal and human safety studies have concluded that sucralose is safe for everyone to
consume. Since, chlorine is something we consume every day in our water and other foods we eat, it is safe in this formulation. As a result, sucralose does not require any warning labels."


From U. of Wisconsin:


"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]More than 100 studies conducted and evaluated over a 20-year period clearly demonstrate the safety of sucralose. Studies were conducted in a broad range of areas to assess whether there were any safety risks regarding cancer, genetic effects, reproduction and fertility, birth defects, immunology, the central nervous system, or metabolism. These studies clearly indicate that sucralose does not cause tooth decay, cancer, genetic changes or birth defects. Sucralose also has no effect on carbohydrate metabolism, male or female reproduction or the immune system."[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Here's the FDA paperwork on it: FDA/CFSAN Federal Register 63 FR 16417 April 3, 1998 -- Final Rule: Sucralose

Diet Coke is sweetened with aspartame.
[/FONT]

 

[htxred]

wrd aspartame is bad shit.

In fact I already had a few apples, a banana, oatmeal, granola, and other healthy stuff today

banana as a very high amount of sugar, as do other fruit, you should limit your fruit intake to just the AM and have a very minimal amount. and eat fruit throughout the day only if you suddenly start to feel sluggy and lethargenic.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Yeah, the FDA also made a ruling a long time ago that it was henceforth ILLEGAL to treat anything classified as a disease WITHOUT medicine. People have actually gone to jail for offering natural cures and or aids to help with the symptoms. Never mind whether they work or not. I can understand putting scam artists in jail, however there are plenty of "natural" remedies that have been shown to at least help the symptoms of some diseases and/or possibly increase your chances of eliminating said diseases. Sorry but, I don't put any stock in what the FDA says. Humans have lived without artificial sh*t for a looooooong time, so why do I need it? You keep drinking yourself straight to diabetes Alan! lol I'm totally kidding about that last part.

Ooops, I saw "sucrose", must of thought it said sucralose. Well I know there are energy drinks out there that do have sucralose.

 

[htxred]

ephedrine HCL is something you should into. it really does work in manipulating your receptors to help you with the fat loss. its been proven time and time again. just dont be an idiot and take it without eating or being active, THATS how you cause problems. but the govt is restricting the amount you buy now a days because of them damn tweakers out there. in any case, the shit is badass and the pharmacutical companies are worried and they should be because this shit actually works and there is no way for them to make money off it.

 

[Texas1911]

You keep drinking yourself straight to diabetes Alan!

Chug-a-Chuga-Chug-a-Chuga-Woo-Wooo.

Ooops, I saw "sucrose", must of thought it said sucralose. Well I know there are energy drinks out there that do have sucralose.

It does have Sucralose (Splenda) in it, but Splenda is not on the same level as Aspartame.

Natural substances can kill you just as fast as artificial ones. Less we forget that just about 99.9% of the pharmaceuticals out there are artificially made as well.

 

[Shorts]

The most important thing I hardly saw mentioned - calories.

The percentage/amt of protein, carbs and fat must operate within the confines of the daily caloric intake (based on resting metabolic rate-RMR). You can't do anything else until you have that range/number.

Any diet that attempts to circumvent the daily caloric requirement is bogus.


When I say "diet" I do not mean it as "lose weight". When I say diet, it means the foods you eat.

Alright, common #s you need to know:

• 3500kcal = 1lb of fat

Energy provided per gram-

• Carbs = 4kcals, RDA = 45-65%
• Protein = 4cals, RDA = 10-35%
• Fat = 9kcals, RDA = 20-35% (<10% Sat.)

H20 - adults need avg 2.5L/day

Weight loss ACSM (gold standard) recommends no more than 2.2lbs/wk. Caloric deficit per week ~ 3500-7000kcal....or 500-1000kcal/day. Calorieconsumption should not fall below 800kcal per day w/o a Drs supervision. Minimum recommended for any healthy adult is 1200kcal. This 5'3" 110lb gal RMR sits just under 1300kcal with DCI ~1700-1900kcal. If you're taking in less than I am, you're in trouble.

As for the Monster diet, that drink has a very high glycemic index. Which simply means it raises your blood sugar very quickly. I wouldn't recommend it regularly as it also gets burned very quickly. Causing your blood sugar to rise and plummet. Personally, I never drink the stuff and I dont care for it. Others love it.



htxred, I saw your pics - very impressive transformation.


HK_Fiend, if you're interested, I can work your numbers for you with the understanding they are guidelines. While I'd enjoy working with you, simple fact is I'm just not there in person to take 1) responsibility and 2) liability. As I said, it'd be straight numbers. I can't give you a full workup and assessment cause I'm simply not there to do it

 

[Texas1911]

As for the Monster diet, that drink has a very high glycemic index. Which simply means it raises your blood sugar very quickly. I wouldn't recommend it regularly as it also gets burned very quickly. Causing your blood sugar to rise and plummet. Personally, I never drink the stuff and I dont care for it. Others love it.

I'm not on a Monster diet as HK_Fiend would have you believe. I simply drink them from time to time as a replacement to sodas. I get tired of drinking water, and frankly most juices contain way too much sugar. I also drink green tea, and occasionally black tea.

The way I read the Monster is that the carbohydrate is straight glucose, which, as we know is the highest measure of GI since it has no refinement before entering the blood stream. However on the other hand the total glycemic load is on par with a single apple, which has a moderate / low GI, but a higher carb count. Overall insulin response should be similar?

I've found that 1800 calories and eating throughout the day worked best for me. I had to force myself not to eat a meal, but to eat a sandwich, then later on eat a little pasta, or something different.

I managed to go from 259 lbs. to 216 lbs. in about 9 months with only a mild upper body dumbbell routine and diet moderation. I've since put back on some more weight, some muscle. I'm at 224 right now.

Also, I just blended my smoothie of doooooom. Plain yogurt, raspberries, and whey. It's really tart, but is great on some flax granola in the morning. I think I might add some blackberries or blueberries on future models, but unfortunately those don't have as much fiber.

 

[htxred]

how you guys eat less then 2000 calories is beyond me. even when i was 230+ i ate more then 2000 cals.

best shake recipe

wpi + banana + 1 cup ff milk + raw oatmeal + ice * blend = nom nom, add strawberries if you're feelin frisky.

i mentioned calories shorter, but i figure it was an understood concept so i did not go that far into it. calories is boring talk when you're talkin to guys.

 

[Shorts]

how you guys eat less then 2000 calories is beyond me. even when i was 230+ i ate more then 2000 cals.

best shake recipe

wpi + banana + 1 cup ff milk + raw oatmeal + ice * blend = nom nom, add strawberries if you're feelin frisky.

i mentioned calories shorter, but i figure it was an understood concept so i did not go that far into it. calories is boring talk when you're talkin to guys.

I know, that's why I said "hardly mentioned"

Well, boring or not, they matter. All guys wants to hear about is protein this carbs that and that's great and all (I do too when I'm on target), but you gotta start with the basic physiology and nutrition or you'll do more harm than good. And if you're not doing harm, you're blindly and inefficiently going about the task. And talk of a liquid diet just sends up red flags.


The proper diet can make results come in fast when used with a weight and cardio program, and I'm pretty sure you already know that

I might be preaching to the choir, but going without the proper nutrition will stunt muscle growth and set you up for failure by way of training fatigue and a nagging injury. You're body needs to recover and it does it with the right foods.


I wasn't much for fancy shakes, mainly cause I hated getting out the blender :P The chocolate banana recipe I used during the summers and boy did it hit the spot on a hot day. Normally though, Gold Standard chocolate after a session worked just fine. But that cookies and cream stuff is kinda gross. Though it went great in coffee in the morning. Did anyone do the peanut butter at night??

My trouble with calories is I never got enough. Once I started dropping weight, it kept coming off. While sounding messed up, hitting 1900kcal for the day was tough! At that time, I had protein up at around 100-105g a day....but for me, that's about right for the program I was on. You guys have to eat twice as much, which I find insane!

 

[Shorts]

I'm not on a Monster diet as HK_Fiend would have you believe. I simply drink them from time to time as a replacement to sodas. I get tired of drinking water, and frankly most juices contain way too much sugar. I also drink green tea, and occasionally black tea.

The way I read the Monster is that the carbohydrate is straight glucose, which, as we know is the highest measure of GI since it has no refinement before entering the blood stream. However on the other hand the total glycemic load is on par with a single apple, which has a moderate / low GI, but a higher carb count. Overall insulin response should be similar?

I've found that 1800 calories and eating throughout the day worked best for me. I had to force myself not to eat a meal, but to eat a sandwich, then later on eat a little pasta, or something different.

I managed to go from 259 lbs. to 216 lbs. in about 9 months with only a mild upper body dumbbell routine and diet moderation. I've since put back on some more weight, some muscle. I'm at 224 right now.

Also, I just blended my smoothie of doooooom. Plain yogurt, raspberries, and whey. It's really tart, but is great on some flax granola in the morning. I think I might add some blackberries or blueberries on future models, but unfortunately those don't have as much fiber.

lol No worries - I hadn't labeled anyone here as a Monster fiend I'm enjoying the discussion, I don't get a chance to talk gym much. It's actually rather difficult to talk in depth to other ladies, but I like the discussions with guys. They never say "Oh well you're so lucky..."


Uhh, no, not lucky. Do you see my butt? That's right, you don't - cause I worked it off! mmm kay...sorry, gym fashbacks with catty women...



Green tea, I enjoy it as well. Out here in Japan, it's pretty darn abundant. If you're ever interested, holler at me and I'll send you some from out here. We live a block over from a big grocery store that we hit at least once a week. That goes for anyone


I do the same as you when I'm on schedule. I eat every couple hours throughout the day. It did take a little prep to make sure I had my lunches when I was up at the gym/work. But my metabolism on that schedule was really humming. I found it very effective. I had my husband drop about 30lbs as well. Every time I'd get a program drawn up for him, he;d follow it, scantly for a week then drop it. Then wondered why he couldn't get results. Well, he finally committed and he did real well. I think that 80% of the battle is just staying committed to go and hit a workout. The diet isn't always perfect and you have to allow a day to eat 'bad' or you'll drive yourself crazy. But in general, staying consistent helps quite a bit.

 

[Texas1911]

Green tea, I enjoy it as well. Out here in Japan, it's pretty darn abundant. If you're ever interested, holler at me and I'll send you some from out here. We live a block over from a big grocery store that we hit at least once a week. That goes for anyone

I'm game for that. What do you need from me?

 

[Shorts]

I'm game for that. What do you need from me?

Just PM your address is all