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In light of these Walmart incidents...

Discussion in 'Texas LTC / CHL' started by JakeCFH15, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. JakeCFH15

    JakeCFH15 New Member

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    I've asked this question on another forum and got many personal opinions on the matter. While I absolutely welcome those, I'm more-so looking for legal answers here.

    Since I began researching and looking into concealed carrying last year, I've run myself through a number of mental scenarios, trying to figure out what I would do naturally to try and consciously weed out some bad decisions that I might make while in a dangerous situation. These recent Walmart incidents have got me thinking quite a bit.

    One scenario I keep thinking about is this:

    I'm by myself at Walmart around 6:00PM and I'm minding my own business somewhere towards the back of the store. I suddenly hear semi-auto fire coming from near the right main entrance (most Walmarts I've seen have a left and a right entrance). I feel as though I would immediately look for cover and listen to gather more information; where exactly the shots are coming from, what kind of firearm is being used, how many shooters are there, how many people are in the area of the shooter, if the shooter is shouting anything, if anyone is around me, etc. After that I know for a fact that I would subconsciously want to sneak from the rear of the store to behind the shooter (keeping cover incase he turns around), wait for a clear shot, and plant three to four rounds in the "V" as quickly and accurately as I can.

    Now with all of the fluff out of the way, here's my legal question.

    I have a duty to escape if I can reasonably do so. With the shooter being in the front of the store and me being near the rear, I am possibly 300+ feet away from them with tons of merchandise and aisles between us. He is no direct threat to me at the moment. If I sneak across the store and directly confront him, could a prosecutor reasonably argue that I put myself in a dangerous situation just to fire my weapon? As in I was looking for a fight? Does Stand Your Ground/Castle Doctrine cover a situation like this?

    Others had made the point that they would seek out emergency exit doors and flee, or try and get into employee quarters and barricade themselves in. Others said they'd try and hunt him down just like I described. Just curious what yall think you'd do in that situation, but also how Texas law can be interpreted there.

    (EDIT: Of course these mental exercises can't replace real training, but it's better than nothing. I plan on finding an instructor to teach more advanced CHL lessons.)
     


    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  2. AustinN4

    AustinN4 TGT Addict

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    Then you need an attorney.
     
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  3. txinvestigator

    txinvestigator TGT Addict

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    Who says?

    You really need to read Texas law and take a class before your Rambo scenarios. You are not required to retreat under Texas law prior to using justified deadly force. The rest of our poorly named Castle Doctrine has nothing to do with it.

    See chapter 9 of the Penal code, specifically 9.32 and 9.33

    https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm#C

    Texas CHL Law has nothing to do with under what circumstances one may be justified in using deadly force. Texas use of force laws are whet you seek. See link above

    Most of these shooters are armed with rifles. You mentioned 300 feet. Can you hit with a handgun at that distance against a dude throwing rifle fire at you? Ever been under fire? Had to react under fire? You'll be lucky if you even figure our what the hell is happening in 15 to 20 seconds, then your brain will be trying to figure out what to do. Look up OODA loop and action vs reaction.
     
  4. Kar98

    Kar98 TGT Addict

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    This is where I high-tail it out of the car service entrance in the rear of the store and you better not be in my way.
    Situational AND locational awareness! Always know where the exits are.
     
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  5. Dad_Roman

    Dad_Roman TGT Addict TGT Supporter

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    This a helluva way to say Hello.
     
  6. JakeCFH15

    JakeCFH15 New Member

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    In that scenario, he has no line of sight on me and I can't see him either. There are rows and aisles of merchandise separating us. To him, I'm not even there. Most shooters will shoot towards the closest group of people they see, so his attention will most likely be focused on the front row cash registers and the people in line to pay for their groceries, or anyone else near him. I'm not going to run out, get a line of sight, and try to shoot this guy from 300+ feet with a compact 9mm. That's why I specified that I'd move from cover to cover around him until I was close enough for an effective shot. But that moving part is where my question comes from. I was in a safe position to start with, and I could've tried to remain hidden. Would the act of me moving clear across the store to "Rambo" him be seen as my looking for a fight since I was in a safe area to start with?

    The link you provided did clear some things up. Thanks for posting that.

    To answer your questions, no, I've never been under fire or had to react under fire, thank God. I don't see that as a disqualifier to act at all though. Of course things will be insanely tense in that moment and I may not react the way I think I will. That's where training comes in.
     
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  7. JakeCFH15

    JakeCFH15 New Member

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    I'm not one for soft entrances :D
     
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  8. Frank59

    Frank59 NO MA'AM!! TGT Supporter

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    Clearly the best advice so far. Your not obligated to retreat. Do you really want to take on a guy with a rifle at a long distance with a carry pistol?
     
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  9. BRD@66

    BRD@66 TGT Addict

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    Neither is your main greeter here.:laughing:
     
  10. Kar98

    Kar98 TGT Addict

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    Walmart merch barely provides concealment, and not at all cover. You could probably shoot through a lineup of Walmart brand washing machines with a .22 short.

    Doesn't matter if he's spraying the place in a circle.[/QUOTE]
     


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