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Is it legal in Texas to use lethal force to protect my pet?

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    kingofwylietx

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    Wouldn't you feel threatened with bodily harm if a dog was attacking yours? I don't know the legalities, but there would be a loud bang if another dog came after mine. Be aware of what is behind your target, though you should pretty much be firing towards the ground.

    I've put my hand on my .45 once while walking my dog. However, the other dog did not become aggressive. It was one of those things were a huge rottwieler (sp?) that was loose came running up to us at night. As he closed the distance, I put my hand on my pistol. When he was very close, I knew I could draw & fire....but he was actually quite friendly. He came up, they sniffed each other, then he went down the street to his owner.

    Another time, a small dog came up and started nipping at our dog. His owner was 20 feet away, so I yelled at them to get their dog. Unfortunately, I had to punt the mutt back towards them (I'm not going to let some other 4-legger bite my dog while its owner just stands there). I had my .380 with me then, but there was obviously no reason to even consider bringing it out.

    I asked a cop buddy about the first instance, he said that I can defend myself against an aggressive dog (your dog isn't the only thing being threatened, YOU are too. You can easily be attacked while the dogs are fighting or even after the initial attack on your dog). He's not a lawyer, but it makes sense to me.
     

    KellyAsh

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    Is it legal to use lethal force to defend my dog?

    I am a CHL holder and am unclear whether or not I can defend my dog from an attacker. Thanks in advance.
     

    APatriot

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    I am a CHL holder and am unclear whether or not I can defend my dog from an attacker. Thanks in advance.
    Phrased somewhat differently which directly goes to your question is this: is your dog private property?

    I am not an attorney, but from a layman's point of view, if you can "at night" use deadly force to protect your private property from being confiscated, then i would think the answer would be yes. Not sure. Good question though.
     

    Nef

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    I've wondered about this too. Could you shoot a person who was attacking your dog? The dog is your property and you can defend your property can you not?

    Taking the morality out of the situation, just asking the question from a legal perspective. Would the answer differ if the event occurred on your property or in your house?
     

    Hoji

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    Pets in Texas are considered property.

    § 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in
    lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
    justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
    actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
    prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
    interference with the property.
    (b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
    movable property by another is justified in using force against the
    other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
    is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
    property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit
    after the dispossession and:
    (1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
    claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
    (2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using
    force, threat, or fraud against the actor.
    § 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
    justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
    tangible, movable property:
    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
    other under Section 9.41; and
    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
    deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
    arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
    nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
    immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
    robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
    property; and
    (3) he reasonably believes that:
    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or
    recovered by any other means; or
    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to
    protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
    another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
     

    KellyAsh

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    Aug 22, 2009
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    Don't do it

    Im looking for a reference to a law, not personal advice. But thanks anyway.

    If nothing else Im going to kick the crap out of the other dog and shoot it if it so much as tries to bites me. I can and will defend myself against anything that tries to bring great bodily harm or death to me and an attacking dog fits that bill.
     

    texas1willy2

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    I'm going to start this by telling you my tone I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, just the voice of reason.
    Do you really think that a CHL permit was designed so we could with premeditation kill dogs?
    This is obviously something that is not that pressing or you wouldn't be making threads about it.
    So if every time I went somewhere something bad happened then I wouldn't go there.
    If the dog is coming in your yard do something without the world knowing about it.

    Legal issues a side I thought of several worst case scenarios as soon as I read your thread. One being every news station in the U.S. would love to run with a story like that, that could potentially set our whole cause back. Second even if the law is on your side that doesn't mean it will not cost you tens of thousand dollars to prove that.

    In this country you can kill unborn babies but, dogs and cats have more rights than that. (it's crazy)
    Don't get me wrong I would want my ANYTHING being attacked, I would how ever be wise about the solution.
     

    Bear8u

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    If lethal force is necessary, use lethal force.
    You didn't give any back story as to why you think you need to use such force in defending yourself and/or your property.
    Texas law allows you protect yourself and your property but every situation is different and not every act of self defence calls for lethal force.
    Is lethal force the only option?
     

    M. Sage

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    1: I moved this to a more appropriate forum because it didn't belong in the local section.

    2: Everybody needs to remain calm and be polite. Everybody. (Did you hear the "or else"? If you didn't, there it is.)

    3: Partial answers to your questions are here: Texas Penal Code - Section 9.41. Protection Of One's Own Property - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws Texas Penal Code - Section 9.42. Deadly Force To Protect Property - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws Read it and understand it, it's a start. If this doesn't answer your question, you may want to shell out a couple hundred dollars for a lawyer to research it and answer it for you.
     

    DoubleActionCHL

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    Phrased somewhat differently which directly goes to your question is this: is your dog private property?

    I am not an attorney, but from a layman's point of view, if you can "at night" use deadly force to protect your private property from being confiscated, then i would think the answer would be yes. Not sure. Good question though.

    More specifically, Texas Penal Code says deadly force might be justified to prevent the imminent commission of theft during the nighttime and criminal mischief during the nighttime. I'm not sure you can classify a dog attacking your dog as either one.
     

    DoubleActionCHL

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    1: I moved this to a more appropriate forum because it didn't belong in the local section.

    2: Everybody needs to remain calm and be polite. Everybody. (Did you hear the "or else"? If you didn't, there it is.)

    3: Partial answers to your questions are here: Texas Penal Code - Section 9.41. Protection Of One's Own Property - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws Texas Penal Code - Section 9.42. Deadly Force To Protect Property - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws Read it and understand it, it's a start. If this doesn't answer your question, you may want to shell out a couple hundred dollars for a lawyer to research it and answer it for you.

    This is would be a good time to consider signing up for PrePaid Legal Services. You could call up an attorney as often as you like and ask these questions, free of charge!
     

    Phoebe Ann

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    Kelly - I know you're looking for what the law says about this. I can't offer that up but it did bring up some questions.

    Your question confused me because the initial question asks if you can use lethal force to defend your dog. Then you posted that you want to kick the cr*p out of "the other dog if it tries to bite" you. So is this about protecting you or your dog?

    Also, something to think about...Texas follows the "one bite rule." This could shield the owner of the dog you're referencing from civil liability to its first victim. The law would obviously be open to interpretation in court but the critical thing for you is to establish NOW that this other dog is harmful or threatening and that the owner knowingly harbors this threatening dog. Get it on record ASAP. That could be a most critical step for your defense should you need one.

    If you threaten the dog (with a stick, etc.) it could show that you are "threatening" the dog. If there is evidence that you provoked the dog, it will be more difficult to find in your favor. There are so many "ifs" that I would do all possible to record any aggression by the dog now, showing a pattern and increased aggression, and do all possible to avoid killing a person over this.

    And I'm not an attorney. I just play one on t.v.
     

    M. Sage

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    ... You mean he's talking about protecting his dog from another dog? That's not "lethal force" as laid out in penal code. Lethal force only applies to humans. Shooting a dog is destruction of property, maybe animal cruelty... If the dog is aggressive, then shooting it is not using lethal force. Shooting his owner would be.

    I think he wants something from an entirely different section of law. First thing I'd do is call the police and let them know there's an unrestrained and aggressive dog. Other than that, do what you need to do in whatever situation you're in. Violence is almost never the answer, but when it is it's the only answer.
     

    KellyAsh

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    Aug 22, 2009
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    "Do you really think that a CHL permit was designed so we could with premeditation kill dogs?
    This is obviously something that is not that pressing or you wouldn't be making threads about it."

    Im not even going to respond to the first statement as it is an absurd question.

    To the second, it is not a pressing issue and there is no history from which this question came. I am simply trying to learn my legal boundaries without spending hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to do so.

    I am familiar with all the basic legalities concerning personal defense and use of lethal force and protection of property so that is not my question.

    In hindsight, the real question is, is a dog legally considered property and there doesnt seem to be a clear answer to that.

    As for less than lethal solutions, they are too unreliable for me to rest the wellfare of my dog on them.

    As for the kicking the crap out of the dog, that would be in defense of my dog. If the dog were to attack me after I attempted to defend my dog through less than lethal means I could clearly defend myself with lethal force, by law.

    However, again, my question should have been, "Is a pet considered property under Texas law?" I see I have opened myself up to some unnecessary scrutiny here. LOL The rest would be for me to decide in that moment should something happen.

    Thanks to everyone for their input.

    " ... If the dog is aggressive, then shooting it is not using lethal force. Shooting his owner would be."

    LMAO, now thats some funny stuff there!
     

    JohnnyLoco

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    I'm confused too.

    If you are defending your dog against a human I would take their advice unless you have a bunch of money to throw away. Unless you pick your Jury from the animal shelter or a pro-abortion ralley (same folks), your hung.

    Against a dog, hell yeah. He's trying to get to you and your dog is trying to protect. There are leash laws in most every county of TEXAS. As long as your not in an incorporated area (city) with discharge laws. Rual subdivisions with subdivision restrictions on firearms is null & void and unenforceable. (meaningless).
    You also hear about needing ten acres to shoot or hunt, thats BS too because their is more to it than that. Unless the proper paperwork is done..meaningless.

    Pepper spray works better. Something works better than all that but I won't discuss it on here.

    Remember, cops can arrest you for whatever they want and then you are out money even if it don't stick.
     
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