Is it time...

[jordanmills]

Absolutely! And I want their governing bodies to ensure they have the technology and firepower to deliver swift and lethal punishment to unlawful aggression!!

Yeah that kind of thinking is part of the problem. A cop's job is to enforce the law and to bring someone to justice. Not to punish.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Yeah that kind of thinking is part of the problem. A cop's job is to enforce the law and to bring someone to justice. Not to punish.

Exactly, but even justice on earth is imperfect. Only when we face God will we see true justice.

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[mad88minute]

I can even understand the Amber Guyger case.

I sincerely feel for her.

I personally have witnessed soldiers make a mistake that resulted in civilian death, children. And they were charged with a crime for it. There were victims on both sides of this accident. Fortunately we have a legal system to deal with these things.
Fortunately My friends were found innocent in the UCMJ system.



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[jordanmills]

You won't find another group that is as pro-gun, pro-bill-of-rights, down to earth as police (at least Texas police...) are.

Yeah I don't know about that. Have you heard of Art Acevedo? Earlier this year, I had a constable deputy see me with my shirt riding up, and threatened to arrest me for going into a county office building because "guns aren't allowed in government buildings".

 

[avvidclif]

The neighbor is partly to blame. Calling the Police for a BS reason is never OK

If the neighbor had:
1. Called her or
2. Knocked on her door

I would say after that would be the time to call the police, not before.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Yeah that kind of thinking is part of the problem. A cop's job is to enforce the law and to bring someone to justice. Not to punish.

I was in LE back in the 60's. I can tell you we had a whole nother approach compared to today. Cops today are taught to shoot first, ask questions later. We were taught to not take your weapon from its holster unless there was a need and if there was a need be prepared to shoot.

So we approached a house at 3:30 am. LeRoy is in there with his wife and 2 kids. Its a safe bet LeRoy was in on that string of 3 armed robberies the past few months. There are 3 of us, 2 go to the front door, one to the back. We bang on the door. TiWanda comes to the door and thru it she says LeRoy is not there, we know better. We talk to her and tell we are to take him in for questioning...finally LeRoy comes to the door. LeRoy has a rap sheet a mile long, he has done time in City, County and state pen, he is a bad dude, he has murdered, robbed you name it and he is VIOLENT. Guess what? We talk him down, finally, about 5 am we cuff him and take him in.

The 3 or 4 that went to get someone. Chief Deputy, and 2 or 3 Deputy's. One guy we brought in had escaped from Cummings Prison in Ark, Murder rap. We talked him down ( I was usually the driver, but all of us talked to the guy). Me and the Chief Deputy later drove him back to Cummings. We stopped twice, once for lunch and then mid-afternoon at a Dairy Queen and got him some Ice Cream.

Today its a whole nother story. Guns are drawn before they get to the house, often they are dressed in full battle rattle, they come to fight and all to often the results are exactly what they came for and another man and maybe a cop goes down.

Think what you want to about Waco, but it happened exactly the way the WANTED it to happen. I look out my window and see 1600 full battle rattle folks dress like Ninja's, tanks helicopters...It screams at me: BOY you are going down...given that I am not going down without a fight!

 

[easy rider]

I'm sure if the neighbor thought that something like what had happened, he would have done things differently. You have got to be kidding me that you believe this is in anyway the neighbor's fault.

 

[majormadmax]

I agree.

I do fear that the number of poorly trained/qualified officers may be growing. It’s difficult to tell, sometimes you have a cluster of negative events that aren’t representative of the true average.

Then again, it seems like there was a rash of “no knock” incidents that lead to changes that seem to have been effective. Maybe this will spur some change as well.

Sadly, it's a real Catch-22 in that the "performance" of these poorly-qualified officers is driving potentially qualified ones to doing something else. But society is also to blame, it constantly picks at every action of a police officer without remembering they are as fallible as any other human. Policing has become a thankless job and that constant pressure of being criticized after the fact will cause officers to get killed due to a hesitation.

People also unfortunately rarely consider both sides of the situation. Everyone is criticizing the neighbor, but he's not the police and there is no obligation for him to put himself in harm's way to investigate the situation when we have an armed force that does that.

I am not saying this was a justifiable shoot by any means, just seeing someone armed inside the house does not constitute a threat but I was not there in his shoes so I cannot presume what was going through his brain (the same as Guyger). I can only assess the situation with what information has been shared, but the body cam footage is pretty damming in my book. My opinion is he was justified in all his actions up until that point, given the circumstances; but the decision to shoot was a bad one. Unfortunately, it is one that caused the death of an innocent individual, and haunt the officer for the rest of his days...

We can only hope that, as you said, something is learned from this terrible tragedy that will prevent it from happening again!

 

[Frank59]

My opinion is he was justified in all his actions up until that point, given the circumstances; but the decision to shoot was a bad one.

Spot on!

 

[Frank59]

Yeah that kind of thinking is part of the problem. A cop's job is to enforce the law and to bring someone to justice. Not to punish.

Yea....I went back and looked at my post later and I can see what your saying....I simply meant that LE should have the same technology and weaponry that may be used against them to respond accordingly. I certainly didn't mean to insinuate they should be judge, jury and executioner.

 

[F350-6]

And along similar lines regarding police vs. homeowners. Cops can apparently destroy your house as long as they're dealing with a bad guy (even if the homeowner isn't involved) and don't have to pay to fix anything.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/10/...lys-home-police-dont-have-to-pay-for-damages/

 

[DoubleDuty]

And along similar lines regarding police vs. homeowners. Cops can apparently destroy your house as long as they're dealing with a bad guy (even if the homeowner isn't involved) and don't have to pay to fix anything.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/10/...lys-home-police-dont-have-to-pay-for-damages/

Swat overreaction.

 

[jordanmills]

Yea....I went back and looked at my post later and I can see what your saying....I simply meant that LE should have the same technology and weaponry that may be used against them to respond accordingly. I certainly didn't mean to insinuate they should be judge, jury and executioner.

It would be nice if there were a chance of the rest of us being able to do that.

 

[jordanmills]

I was in LE back in the 60's. I can tell you we had a whole nother approach compared to today. Cops today are taught to shoot first, ask questions later. We were taught to not take your weapon from its holster unless there was a need and if there was a need be prepared to shoot.

So we approached a house at 3:30 am. LeRoy is in there with his wife and 2 kids. Its a safe bet LeRoy was in on that string of 3 armed robberies the past few months. There are 3 of us, 2 go to the front door, one to the back. We bang on the door. TiWanda comes to the door and thru it she says LeRoy is not there, we know better. We talk to her and tell we are to take him in for questioning...finally LeRoy comes to the door. LeRoy has a rap sheet a mile long, he has done time in City, County and state pen, he is a bad dude, he has murdered, robbed you name it and he is VIOLENT. Guess what? We talk him down, finally, about 5 am we cuff him and take him in.

The 3 or 4 that went to get someone. Chief Deputy, and 2 or 3 Deputy's. One guy we brought in had escaped from Cummings Prison in Ark, Murder rap. We talked him down ( I was usually the driver, but all of us talked to the guy). Me and the Chief Deputy later drove him back to Cummings. We stopped twice, once for lunch and then mid-afternoon at a Dairy Queen and got him some Ice Cream.

Today its a whole nother story. Guns are drawn before they get to the house, often they are dressed in full battle rattle, they come to fight and all to often the results are exactly what they came for and another man and maybe a cop goes down.

Think what you want to about Waco, but it happened exactly the way the WANTED it to happen. I look out my window and see 1600 full battle rattle folks dress like Ninja's, tanks helicopters...It screams at me: BOY you are going down...given that I am not going down without a fight!

Sounds like things used to be a lot more reasonable. And here I am finding myself having to talk cops down. I thought they were supposed to be trained on that...

And yes about the fight too. I'll go a long way to avoid one. But if you insist on making it a fight, I'm taking at least some of you with down me.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Sounds like things used to be a lot more reasonable. And here I am finding myself having to talk cops down. I thought they were supposed to be trained on that...

And yes about the fight too. I'll go a long way to avoid one. But if you insist on making it a fight, I'm taking at least some of you with down me.

I think things were much different then. You kill a cop and every cop in the US knew about it and was looking for you, YOU were going to get caught and go to jail, simple as that and they all knew that on the inside and talking them down was just not all that hard. I think they saw and knew the cops were just doing their job and if you treated them with respect you got it easy in return, you want to play rough, yea we can make it real rough.

I remember one time the prisoners on the top floor of the Sheriff's building decided to set their mattresses on fire and they busted out their windows, it was a semi riot, but like all of them, it soon came under control. But the Sheriff had a surprise for those that set that mattress on fire and busted out their window, he took names who did and when old man winter showed up they got cold real cold. The sheriff did not replace the windows or the mattresses until about Jan.

We did a lot of things that today would never happen. There was always some farmer or rancher out there who would get a DWI. We would bring them in and not book them till they got sober, but if they raised Hogs or cattle, the Sheriff would work a deal that if they butchered out a cow or couple of Hogs then he would no press charges. I can tell you this if you were the county jail you ate well, very well. IIRC I think the Sheriff got $1.50 per day per prisoner for meals and toilet paper etc. That was not much money even back then. So the Sheriff would let them off if they had a farm and some crop they could trade.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Swat overreaction.

There is the problem right there. SWAT = ATTITUDE

Couple of months ago I was in line to get some chow and a guy in fatigues was behind me so I asked him what branch of the military he was in. He said Special Forces. Cool Army? What unit? As I begin to look don't see any patches just a name tape and something does not seem right. I ask are these the new Army Fatigues? He says no, but its what we wear. So are you Air Force. Then he blurts out no I am a special operator for (I won't name the city) City Police Force and our standards are the same as Army Special Forces....bout that time cutie behind the counter asks for my order. He gets his to go and I am dine in and I get to see the other side of his uniform, he have gun under the fatigue shirt and a city patch on his sleeve.

The city police are morphing into a quasi-military org across the US...don't get me wrong, Detroit, Baltuimore, LA, Chicago etc those guys need all the firepower and tanks they can get their hands on. We have places in the US that are more dangerous than most places in the Middle East.

 

[F350-6]

Swat overreaction.

Maybe so, but a homeowner is still left with a destroyed house, and many homeowners policies won't cover damage caused by police in the line of duty (or war, or terrorism, etc.)

 

[DoubleDuty]

Maybe so, but a homeowner is still left with a destroyed house, and many homeowners policies won't cover damage caused by police in the line of duty (or war, or terrorism, etc.)

It seems that it was completely unnecessary. And this home owner got shafted.

 

[TheDan]

Is it time to disarm the police?

Maybe they need to be issued ropes

 

[Hoji]

Maybe they need to be issued ropes

That made me smile. Thank you.