Is the defense shortgun still relevant?

[Axxe55]

I carry the Carl Gustaf because you don't have to aim it

One of these days, I hope to have Claymores!

No aiming needed!

 

[candcallen]

Do you need to put the stock against your cheek to point a gun at something?

Or is aiming when you look down the top of a barrel and line up sights?

A finger is pointed. A gun is aimed.

How you aim depends on the gun, distance and situation. It is learned from experience, i.e. range time and learning your ability and tactics.

At Content range with a hand gun you arent going to hold your gun out and use sights because you dont have to and dont want to have to defend a snatch. How you engage will depend on the situation and tactics and again you need instructions and practice.

6 to 10 feet or so you may hold your weapon out but instead of looking thru the sights you are simply using the back of the gun covering center mass. With a long gun you may still be in snatch range and may want to defend against that by not throwing the gun up yo your shoulder, may not have time either.

This conversation could go on for pages. But in the end it takes knowledge training and knowing the situation and ones limitations before the question of how to aim in a home defense or selfie defense situation.

 

[MTA]

I am fortunate enough that my mossberg 590a1 patterns any buckshot well

A home intruder would have to get through a door/window and then my german shepherds and then to me. Couple that with the fact that my house is locked up tighter than a dolphins asshole 100% of the time and I also work from home 100% of the time, I am not worried about it enough to have an AR instead of the mossberg.

 

[satx78247]

Several reasons I have mentioned birdshot as being used in home defense, comes from that the bast majority of the time, our shotguns are loaded with birdshot, most of the time. Reasons? Because it's much more likely that they would be used against four legged or slithering predators than the two legged variety.

IF we have to engage a bad guy, or intruder, I doubt that they are going to allow me the time or opportunity to switch from birdshot, to buckshot.

I have always said that for home defensive situations buckshot if preferred and optimum, but at very close ranges, birdshot can kill as well.

Adapt and improvise.

Axxe55,

A 2-footed PREDATOR from near Poteet, TX (who is NOW in a TDC "hotel with bars") can tell you that, at least in his case that a load of #7.5 shot "did the job" when he followed an RN home from the hospital & then broke into the house.
(There is a subset of CRIMINALS out there who are ATTRACTED to/PREY upon nurses.)

The RN's housemate, who is a fire department paramedic, ran to her bedroom, secured her 20 gauge semi-auto shotgun & thereafter shot the home invader. - The 2 ladies then called 911 & reported the incident, before treating the criminal for his wounds.
(Subsequent investigation, by a responding sheriff's patrol, indicates that the range from the shooter to the criminal was about 14 FEET. The SD report also indicated that the criminal's intent was to commit the crime of rape, while armed with a deadly weapon, to wit a hunting knife.)

After the criminal recovered from his gunshot wounds, he pleaded guilty to burglary of a residence, while armed & was sentenced to TDC.

As I said previously, at "inside the house range", birdshot is better than being UNARMED/DEFENSELESS & at least in that one case, worked acceptably.

yours, satx

 

[GoPappy]

SATX, thanks for the good story. I’ve always figured that a face, chest or gut full of birdshot would make for a really bad day. If I was a bad guy, I think it would negatively affect my desire and/or ability to continue an attack.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I imagine the blood loss might make rape more difficult....

 

[rotor]

You don't need to spend a lot of money in normal times to have a dedicated 12g shotgun, a short barrel 18.5" Maverick 88 does the job. There always seems to be some confusion on shot size so perhaps the chart below helps. In my house #4 buck is my choice. In a normal load there are 27 pellets. I doubt if I would need to render first aid to someone stopped with that load. Finding it nowadays is tough though so birdshot if you must.

 

[satx78247]

SATX, thanks for the good story. I’ve always figured that a face, chest or gut full of birdshot would make for a really bad day. If I was a bad guy, I think it would negatively affect my desire and/or ability to continue an attack.

GoPappy,

According to a Deputy of BCSD, the housebreaker/rapist would have "bled out" & would now be deceased had the 2 women NOT immediately/expertly treated his (well-deserved) GSW. - As it was, he spent several days in the ICU, before being jailed, convicted/sentenced to TDC & "will never be easy to look at" again W/O extensive reconstructive/cosmetic surgery.

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

I imagine the blood loss might make rape more difficult....

ZX9RCAM,

IF the report that I got from the Deputy (We were having lunch with a 'tall, cold one' at the time) was accurate, IF the YL had shot him 2-3" higher, the criminal would have "been beyond help", as the neck has MANY large blood vessels & the paramedic might well have "taken his head off" @ the Adam's Apple.

yours, satx

 

[JoeAmerica]

Supposed law enforcement is pro “point and shoot.” No aiming required, just reflex blasting away at “bad guys? Interesting.

Thanks for posting your view points. It informs me and other readers about where you stand when it comes to your job.

You do understand your admissions make it difficult for people to back the police regardless of justification.

Now stop embarrassing yourself in an effort to win a non existent argument.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

 

[Vaquero]

Just don't shoot me.
With anything.
OK?

 

[satx78247]

You don't need to spend a lot of money in normal times to have a dedicated 12g shotgun, a short barrel 18.5" Maverick 88 does the job. There always seems to be some confusion on shot size so perhaps the chart below helps. In my house #4 buck is my choice. In a normal load there are 27 pellets. I doubt if I would need to render first aid to someone stopped with that load. Finding it nowadays is tough though so birdshot if you must. View attachment 228606

Rotor,

Inasmuch as a LOT of LE agencies are "upgrading" their armaments now, it's been my observation that any number of police supply houses have a LOT of "ugly but fully-functional" riot-guns (of several sorts), that they got as "department trade ins", for sale CHEAP.
(Even a "well-worn" S&W 916R will serve a homeowner well as a defensive firearm, cheap/crude as those shotguns are. = I don't ever remember seeing a "worn-out in service" pump riot-gun.)

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

Supposed law enforcement is pro “point and shoot.” No aiming required, just reflex blasting away at “bad guys? Interesting.

Thanks for posting your view points. It informs me and other readers about where you stand when it comes to your job.

You do understand your admissions make it difficult for people to back the police regardless of justification.

Now stop embarrassing yourself in an effort to win a non existent argument.

JoeAmerica,

SHOTGUNS are NOT normally aimed, as other firearms are.
(That's WHY there is NO qualification/scoring with the riot-gun in the US Armed Forces. - Instead a student is "familiarized with" the 12-gauge riot-gun & the student is rated: GO or NO GO.)

Fwiw, I was once, long ago, a "black hat" on the Weapons Committee at USAMPS & taught "combat shotgun" as one of my subjects.

yours, satx
USAMPR, Retired

 

[cvgunman]

Supposed law enforcement is pro “point and shoot.” No aiming required, just reflex blasting away at “bad guys? Interesting.

Thanks for posting your view points. It informs me and other readers about where you stand when it comes to your job.

You do understand your admissions make it difficult for people to back the police regardless of justification.

Now stop embarrassing yourself in an effort to win a non existent argument.

Who are you casting dispersions at?
Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[majormadmax]

This thread is even boring Liam Neeson!

 

[Charlie]

Twenty gauge is plenty for home defense.

 

[Mohawk600]

.410 anyone?

 

[satx78247]

This thread is even boring Liam Neeson!

majormadmax,

AGREED 100% an the AK as a "fighting weapon". - UGLY/CRUDE but DURABLE & shoots EVERY time adequately describes it.

Fwiw, I would like to find a parts kit (at a reasonable price) to assemble my own AK from.
(Wishing that I had been smart enough to buy a CASE of them "in the local native market", to disassemble & ship home as "spare parts", when I was "in a place far away" some dozen years ago. = AK47 by the unopened case were about 30.ooUSD each with "used but serviceable" ones individually at about 35-45.ooUSD.)

yours, satx

 

[rotor]

.410 anyone?

Stop an intruder? I don't know. 12 g for sure, probably 20 okay.