Is there really a difference between .223 and 5.56 ammo?

[CavCop]

you got it all wrong its >armalite ar15>601>602(XM16)>603(XM16E1)>604(M16)>614(M16A1)

Did Armalite actually manufacture any AR-15’s for sale? Or just make prototypes?

My understanding was Colt manufactured all the AR-15/M16’s and that Colt made them at first with a 1:14 twist and that is what Malaysia got in 1959 from Colt. And that when the XM16’s first went to Vietnam they were 1:14 as well. Based on real world results in Vietnam I thought the decision to go to a 1:12 for M16 was made for the Military contract.

There seems to be a lot of gray areas or redacted information that leaves a lot of questions about somethings. Even books on the AR-15/M16 I read years ago had different information.

 

[zackmars]

Did Armalite actually manufacture any AR-15’s for sale? Or just make prototypes?

My understanding was Colt manufactured all the AR-15/M16’s and that Colt made them at first with a 1:14 twist and that is what Malaysia got in 1959 from Colt. And that when the XM16’s first went to Vietnam they were 1:14 as well. Based on real world results in Vietnam I thought the decision to go to a 1:12 for M16 was made for the Military contract.

There seems to be a lot of gray areas or redacted information that leaves a lot of questions about somethings. Even books on the AR-15/M16 I read years ago had different information.

Armalite had some production. They primarily wanted to sell production rights, but still needed guns to show to people.

It's real difficult to accurately pin down information on AR's. Rolling changes in production, guns being updated by armorers, bad/old info...

 

[zackmars]

you got it all wrong its >armalite ar15>601>602(XM16)>603(XM16E1)>604(M16)>614(M16A1)

Its not that simple, there is no "XM16"

The M16 and M16A1 were adopted at the same time (i was wrong about the order earlier). I'm not counting Colt model numbers, just Gov't model numbers.

 

[A1Oni]

Its not that simple, there is no "XM16"

The M16 and M16A1 were adopted at the same time (i was wrong about the order earlier). I'm not counting Colt model numbers, just Gov't model numbers.

my guy I can break it down by serial number and there was in fact an XM16, and it is the Colt 602 if you understood the nomenclature the XM16E1 is a variation of the XM16 which the E1 denotes the forward assist, you can ask any of those fine gentlemen on the ARFCOM retro forum.

USGI SERIAL NUMBER DATA BASE (serial numbers listed in chronological rather then numerical order):

101-14,484
1959-1963
US Air Force/Project AGILE/SEAL issue Colt's AR-15 Model 601, roll marked ARMALITE. Some sold commercially to police departments, small numbers to foreign militaries such as Malaya, India, Australia, Burma, and Singapore.

20,000-39,999
1963-1964
US Property marked AR-15 Colt's Model 02 issued to US Advisors in Vietnam, and US Air Force. Few hundred commercial/export examples were made that lack US Property markings.

40,000-49,999
1964
US Property marked US Air Force M16 Colt's Model 604.

50,000-199,999
1964-1965
US Property marked US Air Force M16 Colt's Model 604 & US Army XM16E1 Colt's Model 603.

14,500-14,916
1965
Commercial/export CAR-15 series and US Property marked GX series for S.A.W.S. contract (note, CAR-15 refers to a family of Colt's weapons, not just short ones).

15,000-19,999
1965
Commercial/export CAR-15 series.

200,000-202,446
1965
Commercial/export CAR-15 series.

202,447-379,353
1965
US Property marked US Air Force M16 Colt's Model 604, and a few commercial export models. There are also examples of commerical/export marked models using the 20X,XXX serial number range produced in the late 1960's.

400,000 series
1966-1973 or so
Only a few rifles/carbines made in this serial number range and known examples are spread out over several years of production. Zero US Property marked rifles have been observed. Highest know example is 418,XXX and dates from the early 1970’s.

500,001-749,999
1966-1967
US Property marked XM16E1 Colt's and M16A1, both Colt Model 603. There are also a small number of US Air Force M16 Colt's Model 604 found in this serial number range. Serial numbers in this range were not run in order. M16A1’s have been observed with serial numbers as low as 604,505, and XM16E1’s have serial numbers as high as 741,12X.

750,000-752,443
1966
Experimental HBAR.

752,444-899,999
1967
US Property marked M16A1.

900,000 through 909,999
1966-1970
US Property marked Govt. Carbines.

910,000-919,999
US Property marked Colt's M16A1 and US Air Force M16 Colt's Model 604.

920,000-999,999
No known examples.

1,000,000-1,999,999
1968-1969
US Property marked Colt's M16A1

2,000,000-2,24X,XXX
1968-1971
US Property marked H&R M16A1.

3,000,000-3,469,217 (approximate)
1968-1971
US Property marked Hydramatic M16A1.

9,000,0000 series
1970’s & 1980’s
In general these are 1970’s and early 80’s “A1” type 600 series commercial/export marked weapons. There are some exceptions, for example US Property marked Govt. Carbines.

AL prefix
1970
Lebanese contract rifles, some 14,000 made.

Note on 4,000,000 series Colt’s, there are quite a few commercial/export marked rifles/carbines mixed in.

4,000,001-4,060,000
1970
US Air Force M16 Colt Model 604.

4,060,001-4,221,800
1970
US Property marked M16A1.

4,221,801-4,285,400
1970
US Air Force M16 Colt Model 604.

4,285,401-4,521,000
1970
US Property marked M16A1.

4,521,001-4,521,850
1970
US Air Force M16 Colt Model 604.

4,521,851-4,638, 400
1970
US Property marked M16A1.

4,638,401-4,643,400
1971
Model 613 for Malaysia.

4,643,401-4,701,400
1971
US Property marked M16A1.

4,701,401-4,701,900
1971
Model 613 Commando

4,701,901-4,844,400
1971
US Property marked M16A1.

4,844,401-4,849,400
1972
Model 613 for Taiwan.

4,849,401-4,926,000
1972
US Property marked M16A1.

4,926,001-4,928,000
1972
Model 613 for Philippines.

4,928,000-4,936,400
1972
US Property marked M16A1.

5,000,000-5,4X,XXX (app)
1973-1982
US Property marked M16A1 Colt's Model 603 (not aware of any Air Force M16 Colt Model 604's with serial numbers this high). Also some export/commercial models.

6,000,000-6,590,478 (approximate)
1983-1986
US Property marked M16A2 & US Property marked XM4 prototypes Colt's Model 720.

8,000,000 series
1980’s
In general these are 700 series commercial/export marked models of the M16A2.

7,000,000-7,429,766 (approximate)
1988-2003
US Property marked FN M16A2. There are also Balimoy M16A1 lowers restamped A2 in this serial number range. These were used as replacement parts by Anniston.

W prefix
1994-current
US Property marked Colt's M4/A1 Carbine, Colt's Model 920/921.

A prefix
1990’s on
900 series Commercial/export versions of the M4 Carbine.

10,000,000 serial number range
1997-
US Property marked Colt's/FN M16A4

 

[A1Oni]

Did Armalite actually manufacture any AR-15’s for sale? Or just make prototypes?

My understanding was Colt manufactured all the AR-15/M16’s and that Colt made them at first with a 1:14 twist and that is what Malaysia got in 1959 from Colt. And that when the XM16’s first went to Vietnam they were 1:14 as well. Based on real world results in Vietnam I thought the decision to go to a 1:12 for M16 was made for the Military contract.

There seems to be a lot of gray areas or redacted information that leaves a lot of questions about somethings. Even books on the AR-15/M16 I read years ago had different information.

when colt bought them out the early lowers were marked armalite and colt

 

[zackmars]

my guy I can break it down by serial number and there was in fact an XM16, and it is the Colt 602 if you understood the nomenclature the XM16E1 is a variation of the XM16 which the E1 denotes the forward assist, you can ask any of those fine gentlemen on the ARFCOM retro forum.

USGI SERIAL NUMBER DATA BASE (serial numbers listed in chronological rather then numerical order):

101-14,484
1959-1963
US Air Force/Project AGILE/SEAL issue Colt's AR-15 Model 601, roll marked ARMALITE. Some sold commercially to police departments, small numbers to foreign militaries such as Malaya, India, Australia, Burma, and Singapore.

20,000-39,999
1963-1964
US Property marked AR-15 Colt's Model 02 issued to US Advisors in Vietnam, and US Air Force. Few hundred commercial/export examples were made that lack US Property markings.

40,000-49,999
1964
US Property marked US Air Force M16 Colt's Model 604.

50,000-199,999
1964-1965
US Property marked US Air Force M16 Colt's Model 604 & US Army XM16E1 Colt's Model 603.

14,500-14,916
1965
Commercial/export CAR-15 series and US Property marked GX series for S.A.W.S. contract (note, CAR-15 refers to a family of Colt's weapons, not just short ones).

15,000-19,999
1965
Commercial/export CAR-15 series.

200,000-202,446
1965
Commercial/export CAR-15 series.

202,447-379,353
1965
US Property marked US Air Force M16 Colt's Model 604, and a few commercial export models. There are also examples of commerical/export marked models using the 20X,XXX serial number range produced in the late 1960's.

400,000 series
1966-1973 or so
Only a few rifles/carbines made in this serial number range and known examples are spread out over several years of production. Zero US Property marked rifles have been observed. Highest know example is 418,XXX and dates from the early 1970’s.

500,001-749,999
1966-1967
US Property marked XM16E1 Colt's and M16A1, both Colt Model 603. There are also a small number of US Air Force M16 Colt's Model 604 found in this serial number range. Serial numbers in this range were not run in order. M16A1’s have been observed with serial numbers as low as 604,505, and XM16E1’s have serial numbers as high as 741,12X.

750,000-752,443
1966
Experimental HBAR.

752,444-899,999
1967
US Property marked M16A1.

900,000 through 909,999
1966-1970
US Property marked Govt. Carbines.

910,000-919,999
US Property marked Colt's M16A1 and US Air Force M16 Colt's Model 604.

920,000-999,999
No known examples.

1,000,000-1,999,999
1968-1969
US Property marked Colt's M16A1

2,000,000-2,24X,XXX
1968-1971
US Property marked H&R M16A1.

3,000,000-3,469,217 (approximate)
1968-1971
US Property marked Hydramatic M16A1.

9,000,0000 series
1970’s & 1980’s
In general these are 1970’s and early 80’s “A1” type 600 series commercial/export marked weapons. There are some exceptions, for example US Property marked Govt. Carbines.

AL prefix
1970
Lebanese contract rifles, some 14,000 made.

Note on 4,000,000 series Colt’s, there are quite a few commercial/export marked rifles/carbines mixed in.

4,000,001-4,060,000
1970
US Air Force M16 Colt Model 604.

4,060,001-4,221,800
1970
US Property marked M16A1.

4,221,801-4,285,400
1970
US Air Force M16 Colt Model 604.

4,285,401-4,521,000
1970
US Property marked M16A1.

4,521,001-4,521,850
1970
US Air Force M16 Colt Model 604.

4,521,851-4,638, 400
1970
US Property marked M16A1.

4,638,401-4,643,400
1971
Model 613 for Malaysia.

4,643,401-4,701,400
1971
US Property marked M16A1.

4,701,401-4,701,900
1971
Model 613 Commando

4,701,901-4,844,400
1971
US Property marked M16A1.

4,844,401-4,849,400
1972
Model 613 for Taiwan.

4,849,401-4,926,000
1972
US Property marked M16A1.

4,926,001-4,928,000
1972
Model 613 for Philippines.

4,928,000-4,936,400
1972
US Property marked M16A1.

5,000,000-5,4X,XXX (app)
1973-1982
US Property marked M16A1 Colt's Model 603 (not aware of any Air Force M16 Colt Model 604's with serial numbers this high). Also some export/commercial models.

6,000,000-6,590,478 (approximate)
1983-1986
US Property marked M16A2 & US Property marked XM4 prototypes Colt's Model 720.

8,000,000 series
1980’s
In general these are 700 series commercial/export marked models of the M16A2.

7,000,000-7,429,766 (approximate)
1988-2003
US Property marked FN M16A2. There are also Balimoy M16A1 lowers restamped A2 in this serial number range. These were used as replacement parts by Anniston.

W prefix
1994-current
US Property marked Colt's M4/A1 Carbine, Colt's Model 920/921.

A prefix
1990’s on
900 series Commercial/export versions of the M4 Carbine.

10,000,000 serial number range
1997-
US Property marked Colt's/FN M16A4

There is no XM16. There is no government paperwork, no roll marks that say "XM16".

You got proof? Show it.

 

[A1Oni]

There is no XM16. There is no government paperwork, no roll marks that say "XM16".

You got proof? Show it.

my brother in christ, the colt 602 IS the XM16

the XM16E1 denotes the forward assist, and they didn't start roll marking them as m16s till the XM16E1

 

[Darqhelmet]

I have used them as full auto lowers with MILES gear as a red team trainer. Multiple xm16e1 lowers were floating around in that system with permanent mods to the mag well to block live rounds from getting to the chamber.

I never thought to snap a picture of the roll mark but here is what it looks like.

 

[A1Oni]

I have used them as full auto lowers with MILES gear as a red team trainer. Multiple xm16e1 lowers were floating around in that system with permanent mods to the mag well to block live rounds from getting to the chamber.

I never thought to snap a picture of the roll mark but here is what it looks like.

View attachment 390602

ah the classic reweld, always cool to see

 

[zackmars]

my brother in christ, the colt 602 IS the XM16

View attachment 390596
the XM16E1 denotes the forward assist, and they didn't start roll marking them as m16s till the XM16E1

You seem to not understand, there is no XM16. while we're at it, there's no M1917 Enfield either.

Show me an XM16 rollmark. Just one. Show me one reference on a military document that mentions an XM16.


Fact is there is no XM16, bever has been, even on paper. You posted a pic of a 602, show me one document that calls it an XM16

 

[A1Oni]

You seem to not understand, there is no XM16. while we're at it, there's no M1917 Enfield either.

Show me an XM16 rollmark. Just one. Show me one reference on a military document that mentions an XM16.


Fact is there is no XM16, bever has been, even on paper. You posted a pic of a 602, show me one document that calls it an XM16

im not going to file a FOIA request over a silly internet argument but if you want to than be my guest. I told ya the facts and thats that

 

[zackmars]

im not going to file a FOIA request over a silly internet argument but if you want to than be my guest. I told ya the facts and thats that

You've made a claim that you can't support, using only what you've learned from arfcom's retro sub.

Considering all the documentation available on the M16 that didn't require FOIA requests, there's not one single mention of an XM16. Just people giving a fake retroactive name to some internal Colt designation. (Which has totally never happened before.)

Let's end this, we'll come back as soon as you present actual facts, and not just a picture of a colt 602.

 

[V-Tach]

There's no difference between .223 and .556 or 7.62 and .308.......................

1million threads say so...........

 

[CavCop]

There's no difference between .223 and .556 or 7.62 and .308.......................

1million threads say so...........

There is a difference when it’s NATO… even 9mm

 

[V-Tach]

Sarcasm..................except for the million + threads on the subject................

 

[JLMcC]

<>

I’ve been told that some of the newer Mini14’s are marked “5.56”.

Same cast receivers ?

Does anyone here know?

?

I just looked on the Ruger website and found both Mini-14 Ranch models listed as 5.56
Mini-14® : Ranch Rifle
Model 05801 & 05802
5.56 NATO - Autoloading Rifle

 

[Darqhelmet]

 

[leVieux]

I just looked on the Ruger website and found both Mini-14 Ranch models listed as 5.56
Mini-14® : Ranch Rifle
Model 05801 & 05802
5.56 NATO - Autoloading Rifle

<>

Yes, that’s what I’ve heard, too.

So, are the receivers the exact same, except for the writing ? IDK, just asking.

I’d like to shoot 5.56 NATO in my oder SS Mini-14, marked “.223”,

leVieux

.

 

[zackmars]

<>

Yes, that’s what I’ve heard, too.

So, are the receivers the exact same, except for the writing ? IDK, just asking.

I’d like to shoot 5.56 NATO in my oder SS Mini-14, marked “.223”,

leVieux

.

It'll be fine. I'm no fan of ruger or the mini, but they do a real good job on their barrels.

 

[leVieux]

It'll be fine. I'm no fan of ruger or the mini, but they do a real good job on their barrels.

<>

Thanks, Zack.

What about the cast receivers ?

Are they OK ? I’ve never heard of one failing (yet).

leVieux
.