"It is sickening" to call the Boward Deputy a Coward

[Double Naught Spy]

Here is a law enforcement instructor who thinks we are terrible people to be name calling, unless we are without sin. After all, the Broward Coward will have to live with what he did his entire life. Ironically, there are 17 people who will not have to opportunity to live with what he did because they died on that day.

Ironically, he seems to offer justification for his reasoning because other deputies did not make entry either.

My opinion is that this law enforcement training officer is sickened by the wrong thing.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...rcement-instructor-tim-vogt-column/369860002/

 

[oldag]

Already a thread running on this topic.

 

[benenglish]

Already a thread running on this topic.

Yes, but this brings up something specific:

Tim Vogt, a former Border Patrol agent, is a full-time instructor at a law enforcement training academy. The views expressed here are his own and not those of any government agency.

Where does this guy teach? If it's a private business and not a government entity, he may have just put them out of business. The bio suggests he's a government employee but it's not explicit and, even so, I'd still like to know where.

 

[easy rider]

So what training did that high school coach have that died trying? Sometimes it's not all about training and you just have to go on your conscience. The video of Peterson speaks for itself IMO.

 

[avvidclif]

For those commenting. How many of you have walked the walk???? If you've never been there you think you know how you would react but don't know for sure. If you have a CIB you probably know.

 

[Younggun]

Many, many people have put thereselves directly in harms way to protect others.

The "if you haven't been there" line is a crock. His job was to protect those students. He accepted the job to protect those students, and he ran away leaving them to die when the time came for him to do his job.

He is a coward. He should live in shame for being a coward. He should live with the reality that he ran for safety and allowed those children to die. And he shouldn't have any comfort or excuse for himself.

CIB badge? Because nobody else could have any idea if they are a coward or an ordinary citizen who's willing to protect the life of a child. Nope, not gonna fly.

 

[easy rider]

For those commenting. How many of you have walked the walk???? If you've never been there you think you know how you would react but don't know for sure. If you have a CIB you probably know.

Don't presume that just because someone hasn't been in that situation you know how people would react. Sometimes people react on instinct alone. I care about children, therefore I like to think I would do everything possible to protect those children.

 

[Renegade]

“Let him who has never been shot at criticize those making$40,000 a year who also choose not to be shot at.”

The old "if you have not walked in his shoes do not criticize" is one of the oldest and weakest arguments ever. If that is all you can come up with and not refute the facts of the incident, you have conceded the criticism is on-target.

An trying to making it a pay issue is even more disgusting.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I have never been a ship's captain, but when they crash into a dock, I can tell when they messed up.

I don't care about this psychological mumbo jumbo about not knowing for sure. Don't care. He took the job to protect those people. That came with risks and benefits. Two of the risks were the very unlikely possibility of injury or death dealing with such a situation, or the risk or being called a bad name for not doing what he was tasked with doing at the time he needed to do it. He certainly took his SRO 2014 quite proudly. He took a lot of money to do the job. BTW, he was making over $75K per year as of 2016 as base salary. He made over $100K after overtime pay. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...ol-shooting-scot-peterson-20180223-story.html

 

[GeorgeandSugar]

Won’t work with me. He had a duty. These kids and teachers knowing he was hired for that precise reality; to respond to a school shooter. If Petersen had doubts about his moral obligation, he should have not taken the job. I suspect he took the job, because it was “easy duty” and he could hang-out with these kids all day. No reports or paperwork. He was probably coasting into retirement. Well-off school. No problem. School shooting probably: low. He did the calculation and he thought this was a no-brainer. Wrong answer.

I’ll ask this question and maybe someone in LE can answer. What sort of tactical gear and weapons do deputies carry in their vehicles? If there is tactical gear to include an automatic weapon is this policy across the US with police and sheriff departments? I wonder if Petersen had any pre-positioned gear he could have accessed? He was outside at the time. Why was he outside or was he inside and then exited to take up a position outside until backup arrived?

Lots of unanswered questions.


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[Saltyag2010]

It’s sickening he didn’t do 100% of his job.
He will live with this forever.

 

[BillFairbanks]

It was his job and his duty to protect those kids. However, he apparently wasn’t properly trained or equipped to do his job.

Yeah, it’s hard to know what one would do in a deadly situation. However, he took the job, responsibility and pay to protect those kids.

I pray that if I’m ever in a situation where I have to protect those that count on me, I behave appropriately and effectively.


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[avvidclif]

Read closely what I said, not what you think I said. I didn't say anything about how I thought you would react, I said how YOU think you would react. Plain and simple. That's not a weak excuse or anything else. Ask any combat veteran. No mental health mumbo-jumbo.

Read Tim Vought's article again. He says the same thing.

As for "He signed up to do the job" Yep he really did and for whatever reason didn't. Same for the others. Until the final investigative report is in nobody will know for sure what really happened. And I hope the State Police are doing the investigation, the sheriffs office is too close and political. Kinda like Obozo castigating the security officer for shooting Trayvon Martin. And several other instance where he jumped before knowing all the facts.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

[QUOTE="GeorgeandSugar, post: 1694657, member: 33397"]If there is tactical gear to include an automatic weapon is this policy across the US with police and sheriff departments? I wonder if Petersen had any pre-positioned gear he could have accessed? He was outside at the time. Why was he outside or was he inside and then exited to take up a position outside until backup arrived?

Lots of unanswered questions.


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I mentioned this in the other thread.
My SIL is a deputy, and has a department issued AR that he carries at all times.
Difficult to imagine none of the 4 waiting outside only had handguns at their disposal .

 

[avvidclif]

CIB badge? Because nobody else could have any idea if they are a coward or an ordinary citizen who's willing to protect the life of a child. Nope, not gonna fly.

Do you have one? Ever been shot at? Those who do are supposed to have been in combat. If they were they found out what they would do when the stuff hits the fan. That was merely an example of someone who has seen the elephant. It was not an all inclusive list.

 

[BRD@66]

Ah avvidclif, you're defending the wrong guy here.

 

[Lunyfringe]

Do you have one? Ever been shot at? Those who do are supposed to have been in combat. If they were they found out what they would do when the stuff hits the fan. That was merely an example of someone who has seen the elephant. It was not an all inclusive list.

I can tell you that no matter what my qualifications were... If 17 kids died on my watch while I was on duty to protect them and I did nothing, I'd expect to be treated like shit, and probably couldn't live with myself. We're not holding him to any different standard than I would hold myself to.

 

[benenglish]

Ever been shot at?

Yes.

 

[easy rider]

Training gives you a resource to figure out what needs to be done. If fear takes over all that training goes out the window. It's what's inside of us that defines what we are capable of and no amount of training will turn a coward into a hero.

 

[HKShooter65]

Every cop on duty with a pistol on his or her hip knows he or she might be confronted with an asailent with an AR15 every day of their job.

Therein is one of the many reasons I have huge respect for their profession.

Those LEOs on site were no different.

Weather he/they were inadequately trained or excessively fearful....well no matter....their duty to protect failed!

We may never really know. Our debate is of no consequence. There was a failure. Incontrovertible.

I do have to agree that a coach with a shotgun in his truck might have been far more apt to be a hero.