Ladies and Gentlemen, it appears we have a(nother) problem.

[Chickenwing]

I received a notice today that the BATF wants to push a rule (emergency rule?) for FFL dealers to report multiple semi-auto rifle purchases of rifles over .22 caliber and have detachable magazines. I found two articles over it so far...
Proposal calls for gun dealers to report bulk sales of assault weapons

ATF to Require Multiple Sales Reports for Long Guns | NSSF Blog

I, for one, am not too happy to hear about this for obvious reasons. The proposed rule, which imitates the multiple handgun reporting rule, would go into effect January 5th 2011.

This is complete nonsense and I think we all know it. This kind of action smells, and not of roses.

 

[matefrio]

And now we know the reason for the lists they've been publishing.

 

[APatriot]

I received a notice today that the BATF wants to push a rule (emergency rule?) for FFL dealers to report multiple semi-auto rifle purchases of rifles over .22 caliber and have detachable magazines. I found two articles over it so far...
Proposal calls for gun dealers to report bulk sales of assault weapons

ATF to Require Multiple Sales Reports for Long Guns | NSSF Blog

I, for one, am not too happy to hear about this for obvious reasons. The proposed rule, which imitates the multiple handgun reporting rule, would go into effect January 5th 2011.

This is complete nonsense and I think we all know it. This kind of action smells, and not of roses.

Would you care to elaborate on your concerns here?

 

[Chickenwing]

Would you care to elaborate on your concerns here?

Certainly. As the article states it seems that the idea behind the rule is to keep US guns from becoming drug cartel guns down south, which is noble enough. However I (in my opinion) do not believe the US is the major supplier of cartel arsenals. Just like the multiple handgun purchase report (ATF form 3310.4) it reports your information to the ATF if you purchase multiple "modern sporting rifles". My concern is it is unnecessary reporting of the purchasers information.

Buy 2 AR-15s? Reported.
Buy 2 AK-47s? Reported
Buy 2 Remington R-25 .308 rifles one for each of your sons for Christmas so they can go hunting with you? Reported...

I think it is unnecessary. I'm no tin-foil hat wearer, but I don't like unnecessary reporting. To me it just feels like things like this are restrictive to people who have no part in the bullshit going one below our border. Why tighten the noose around MY freedom?

 

[matefrio]

Would you care to elaborate on your concerns here?

More red tape for FFLs to work through. Time = Money. As I don't think illegally supplying arms to Mexico is a big enough issue to justify the cost.

FFLs loose money having to do more paperwork and ATF is running around on the tax payer's dime tracking the information then perusing insignificant leads.

Then even when the FFLs comply, Like Carters Country reporting a huge sale of simi auto rifles, they still end up painted as a bad guy and on top 10 lists. This negative advertising is bad for their business as well even though they can do little if anything to prevent the sales after the guns leave the store.

Other FFLs have been affected in Texas. I know a few Houston businesses hit hard by the ATF for sales they made legally but the purchaser took them over the border.

 

[Renegade]

Certainly. As the article states it seems that the idea behind the rule is to keep US guns from becoming drug cartel guns down south, which is noble enough. However I (in my opinion) do not believe the US is the major supplier of cartel arsenals. Just like the multiple handgun purchase report (ATF form 3310.4) it reports your information to the ATF if you purchase multiple "modern sporting rifles". My concern is it is unnecessary reporting of the purchasers information.

Buy 2 AR-15s? Reported.
Buy 2 AK-47s? Reported
Buy 2 Remington R-25 .308 rifles one for each of your sons for Christmas so they can go hunting with you? Reported...

You left out the best part:

Buy 200 AR-15 lowers: NOT reported.
Buy 200 AR-15 Uppers: NOT reported.

 

[majormadmax]

From J&G...

Dear J&G Customer,

This is a special notice to warn you of impending new gun regulation. The ATF has proposed to require gun dealers to provide directly to the ATF the names, addresses, and serial numbers for every purchase of two or more semi auto, mag fed rifles within a five day period!! They are trying to force this in by January 5th, without any approval from Congress, calling it a needed "emergency" regulation. This is backdoor registration of guns and gunowners.

Here is a quote from the notice by the NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation) regarding this burdensome and illegal move:

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is moving to require federally licensed firearms retailers to report multiple sales of modern sporting rifles beginning January 5, 2011. Specifically, the ATF requirement calls for firearms retailers to report multiple sales, or other dispositions, of two or more .22 caliber or larger semi-automatic rifles that are capable of accepting a detachable magazine and are purchased by the same individual within five consecutive business days."

We are encouraging everyone to contact the relevant officials to protest this move. The office that approves regulation changes like this that bypass Congress is the Office of Information and Regulation affairs of the DOJ and they can be reached at 202-395-6466. You can call your Senator and Representative at the US Capitol switchboard at 202-224-3121.

The NSSF offers the following points to make when calling

1. "Multiple sales reporting of long guns will actually make it more difficult for licensed retailers to help law enforcement as traffickers modify their illegal schemes to circumvent the reporting requirement. Traffickers will go further underground, hiring more people to buy their firearms. This will make it much harder for retailers to identify and report suspicious behavior to law enforcement."
2. "Long guns are rarely used in crime (Bureau of Justice Statistics)."
3. "Imposing multiple sales-reporting requirements for long guns would further add to the already extensive paperwork and record-keeping requirements burdening America’s retailers – where a single mistake could cost them their license and even land them in jail."
4. "Last year, ATF inspected 2,000 retailers in border states and only two licenses were revoked (0.1%). These revocations were for reasons unknown and could have had nothing to do with illicit trafficking of guns; furthermore, no dealers were charged with any criminal wrongdoing."
5. "According to ATF, the average age of a firearm recovered in the United States is 11 years old. In Mexico it’s more than 14 years old. This demonstrates that criminals are not using new guns bought from retailers in the states."
6. "Congress, when it enacted multiple sales reporting for handguns, could have required multiple sales of long guns – it specifically chose not to."

Read the full notice by the NSSF here:
http://www.nssfblog.com/atf-to-require-multiple-sales-reports-for-long-guns/

Read the full ATF document proposing this illegal move here: (PDF)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/atf.pdf

Not good...

Cheers! M2

 

[matefrio]

Brady Campaign Applauds ATF Plan to Collect Reports of Bulk Weapons Sales

Brady Campaign Applauds ATF Plan to Collect Reports of Bulk Weapons Sales | CommonDreams.org
WASHINGTON - December 17 - The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence today applauded the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for its plan to issue an emergency rules change to require that federally-licensed gun dealers near the Mexico border report multiple sales of assault weapons.

 

[APatriot]

Certainly. As the article states it seems that the idea behind the rule is to keep US guns from becoming drug cartel guns down south, which is noble enough. However I (in my opinion) do not believe the US is the major supplier of cartel arsenals. Just like the multiple handgun purchase report (ATF form 3310.4) it reports your information to the ATF if you purchase multiple "modern sporting rifles". My concern is it is unnecessary reporting of the purchasers information.

Buy 2 AR-15s? Reported.
Buy 2 AK-47s? Reported
Buy 2 Remington R-25 .308 rifles one for each of your sons for Christmas so they can go hunting with you? Reported...

I think it is unnecessary. I'm no tin-foil hat wearer, but I don't like unnecessary reporting. To me it just feels like things like this are restrictive to people who have no part in the bullshit going one below our border. Why tighten the noose around MY freedom?

Agreed.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

You left out the best part:

Buy 200 AR-15 lowers: NOT reported.
Buy 200 AR-15 Uppers: NOT reported.

...Great idea for my Christmas shopping

 

[Greg_TX]

I thought that the sale of a lower receiver was treated the same as a complete weapon?

 

[Renegade]

I thought that the sale of a lower receiver was treated the same as a complete weapon?

No, since a receiver only can become a pistol, rifle or shotgun (and of course NFA).

 

[M. Sage]

I'm no tin-foil hat wearer, but I don't like unnecessary reporting.

It's not tin foil. Everybody knows that the BATFE is the best-funded anti-gun group there is.

They do not exist to enforce the law. They do not go out looking to find criminals (even if they do once in a while). They've got only one mission - to make it hard or impossible for the average citizen to buy or own guns. BATFE would follow a general confiscation order. And they'd do it happily.

 

[texas1willy2]

I'm sure this was posted on this site but this doesn't help these issues:

Charlotte, NC --(Ammoland.com)- Statement From NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox

The NRA strongly opposes President Obama’s nomination of Andrew Traver as director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE).

Traver has been deeply aligned with gun control advocates and anti-gun activities.

This makes him the wrong choice to lead an enforcement agency that has almost exclusive oversight and control over the firearms industry, its retailers and consumers.

Further, an important nomination such as BATFE director should not be made as a “recess appointment,” in order to circumvent consent by the American people through their duly elected U.S. Senators.

Traver served as an advisor to the International Association for Chiefs of Police’s (IACP) “Gun Violence Reduction Project,” a “partnership” with the Joyce Foundation.

 

[Texasjack]

You had me at "Brady Campaign Applauds..." That's enough to convince me it's wrong.

 

[tussery]

ATF: Always Think Forfeiture.

 

[facetnated]

Does it really only apply to purchases of multiple rifles? Or to the FFL selling multiple?

Need for Collection
The purpose of the information is to require Federal Firearms Licensees to report multiple sales or other dispositions whenever the licensee sells or otherwise disposes of two or more rifles within any five consecutive business days with the following characteristics: (a) Semi automatic; (b) a caliber greater than .22; and (c) the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

Richard

 

[Chickenwing]

Does it really only apply to purchases of multiple rifles? Or to the FFL selling multiple?



Richard

My understanding is it will be just like the multiple handgun sales report. I.e. if Customer A comes in and purchases 3 AR-15s, the FFL Dealer will be required to report the sale including Customer A's info, the make/model/and Serial Numbers of the guns, and submit that report to the ATF within 24 hours while also submitting a copy to the chief law enforcement agency in that area (Sheriff's dept etc.).