Laws Difficult To Understand

Discussion in 'Gun Legislation' started by LittleGun, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. LittleGun

    LittleGun Active Member

    291
    0
    16
    Jun 27, 2008
    Spring/Houston
    I've been reading the laws about guns and CHL. When I start out reading a section of the law, I think I understand. Then it goes on with point after point until I am unsure of what it says. Is there something that puts the law in simple, straightforward language, that is approved by the State of Texas?
     


  2. JKTex

    JKTex Well-Known

    2,018
    0
    36
    Mar 11, 2008
    DFW, North Texas
    Yes, the laws them self.:lolz:

    And obviously laws aren't written by the general public to understand in first pass. You really have to read thoroughly it if you want to understand "the law".

    There are other sources for interpretation, but they are just that. You still need to go to the law itself.

    If it's not somehting that's been covered 1000 times already, is there something specific? I'm sure many of us can give you our interpretation and point you to the specific part of the law that covered it. By we, I mean txinvestigator pretty much. :tongueout:
     
  3. Texan2

    Texan2 TGT Addict

    7,952
    0
    36
    Nov 8, 2008
    South of San Antonio
    "By we, I mean txinvestigator pretty much"

    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  4. Texan2

    Texan2 TGT Addict

    7,952
    0
    36
    Nov 8, 2008
    South of San Antonio
    Dont try to eat the whole thing in one bite...
    Break it down to little pieces, and it will be much clearer and easier.:happy0001:
     
  5. sharky47

    sharky47 Active Member

    331
    0
    16
    May 4, 2008
    The law is not written to be understood by you. You cannot rule innocent men, not sure who coined that phrase but it rings true. Wanna see some real arbitrary law? Try to operate in the firearm dealing/manufacturing/importing business, it's like walking through a minefield! Best part is, WHEN you are put in the position of defending yourself, your tax dollars will be used to prosecute you. There are somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 laws regarding firearms - this is pertaining to an amendment that contains the words "shall not be infringed", course Scalia has determined that it really means "can be attenuated".

    Land of the free.......

    Not sure how to help you other than contact your local friendly attorney, who has sworn allegiance to the state of texas first.


    Sorry for the rant, but people tend to gloss over this kinda crap - especially in the republican/conservative group (being very general here, forgive me).

    "The more corrupt the state the numerous the laws." - Tacitus
     
  6. Texan2

    Texan2 TGT Addict

    7,952
    0
    36
    Nov 8, 2008
    South of San Antonio

    Wow...is that a bit of anger I detect???
    I agree that our sysem is deeply flawed....but it is the one we have to work within.
    As far as the CHL laws are concerned, you can find a CHL instructor and they can usually clear up things you are unsure of.
     
  7. sharky47

    sharky47 Active Member

    331
    0
    16
    May 4, 2008
    "Wow...is that a bit of anger I detect???"

    If your not angry, your not paying attention. Your handle suggests you are some kind of LEO I presume? I would implore you to try a little experiment - next time you see someone arrested, or arrest someone yourself - ask yourself a few questions:

    1. Is there a clearly identifiable, living breathing victim?

    2. Has this victim suffered personal or property damage as a result of whatever action has been deemed a "crime"?

    3. Can you clearly define and quantify this damage?

    I am not asking you to change your behavior, just think about these questions - it's a fun thought-experiment and might lead you down some interesting mental paths.


    "I agree that our sysem is deeply flawed....but it is the one we have to work within."

    Tell that to the declaration of independance signers, they HAD to work "outside the system". It is not "my" system at all, I have never willfully contracted with DHS, DEA, BATFE, etc for any of their compulsary monopoly "services". I pay for these "services" at the point of a gun, imagine if the ice cream truck had the use of a monopoly on force - he could take away your house and/or put you in a cage if you chose not to buy his overpriced and low quality pushups.....then imagine how much better services we could have if things like police and currency providers had to compete for your money. If they didn't do a good job for a competitive price - the next guy would put them out of business. Look at the price vs. performance of computers of the last 10 years, now imagine if txdot had to compete like that.......


    "As far as the CHL laws are concerned, you can find a CHL instructor and they can usually clear up things you are unsure of."

    This would be a good place to start, hopefully he/she knows what they are talking about and that advice does not land you in a cage or a casket.
     
  8. Texan2

    Texan2 TGT Addict

    7,952
    0
    36
    Nov 8, 2008
    South of San Antonio
    You would presume correctly.

    Sometimes there is a victim...sometimes there isn't.
    That doesn't give you, I, or anyone the right to disregard the laws that we don't agree with.

    While this is an oversimplification...people run red lights, stop signs, and break traffic laws when they think no one is looking. Does that mean they should never get stopped? What happens when the day comes that they hit someone running that stop sign and we DO have a victim? That is when you hear folks say, "The cops never did anything about these crazy drivers". Should we let people run wild as long as no one is getting directly hurt?
    They have places that operate in that manner...Somalia, Liberia, Nigeria. And that works real well for them.:headscratch:
    I will be the 1st to agree that our system is deeply flawed. The higher you go the more flawed it is. I cant imagine that the Founding Fathers ever had anything like this in mind....of that there is no doubt.

    But the reality is that what the guy posting this thread asked was for help in understanding the CHL laws in Texas...and while to the layman they may seem overwhelming at first, the fact is that they are not that complicated. I believe with a little guidance, he will be very confident in knowing that he is carrying in the way the law prescribes and while you and I may not agree with CHL laws or many other laws, by disregarding them we typically only put ourselves in danger of becoming victims of the criminal justice system.
     
  9. sharky47

    sharky47 Active Member

    331
    0
    16
    May 4, 2008
    "That doesn't give you, I, or anyone the right to disregard the laws that we don't agree with."

    It most certainly does. Read about jury nullification at Fully Informed Jury Association - whenever there is a trial going on, there are always at least TWO defendants - one of them being the law. Lawyers and the people calling themselves government have over time prevented this information to be known inside the courtroom. On top of that, just because there is a law, and someone is in charge of enforcing that law - that does not allow them to wash their hands of the consequences of that bad law. The number one defense at the Nuremburg trials was "I was just following orders".......they still hung from the gallows and rightly so.


    "Does that mean they should never get stopped? What happens when the day comes that they hit someone running that stop sign and we DO have a victim?"

    This is a very interesting subject, but has more to do with property rights than anything else. You see, if say txdot were a legitimate entity like a private company competing in the market - they would have the oppurtunity of setting rules for the use of their property - just like you can do with your household and guests. Customers of those roadways would agree to terms of service and violating them would result in penalties or refusal of service - and hurting someone in violation of the rules would certainly elevate the penalties. Problem is, txdot does not have to compete for your dollar - AND they can use violence if need be to confiscate property to expand their monopoly.


    "They have places that operate in that manner...Somalia, Liberia, Nigeria. And that works real well for them."

    Apples to oranges my friend, those places most certainly DO NOT operate in a free market - I would be more than happy to elaborate as to why - but that would derail this thread so much more than I already have. :p


    "But the reality is that what the guy posting this thread asked was for help in understanding the CHL laws in Texas...and while to the layman they may seem overwhelming at first, the fact is that they are not that complicated."

    Oh but it is......and it gets even more complicated when you take into account that the people calling themselves government rarely obey their own rules. If you ever get a spare minute, look up the 2005 CRS report about the BATFE's FTB testing practices and then tell me there is such a thing as a fair trial against them. And that is just ONE of the thousands of agencies that claim dominion over you and I.


    "while you and I may not agree with CHL laws or many other laws, by disregarding them we typically only put ourselves in danger of becoming victims of the criminal justice system."

    And that is the saddest part of all......."do as we say even if it is wrong or we will hurt you". Now I would in no way advocate violent backlash against most of the bad laws they have, but civil disobedience goes a long way to making the people calling themselves government weak and irrelevant - we are seeing this on a small, but growing scale in New Hampshire and is very exciting. Problem is, people calling themselves government NEED you to need them, and will use all manner of nasty behavior to keep you needing them. There is going to be a breaking point in this country - probably in my lifetime (I am in my mid/late-twenties). I can only hope it is an evolution rather than a violent revolution that will only in time get us back to where we are now. It's hard to admit it, but that is what happened/is happening with our current state - we are finding ourselves no better than the thing we attempted to escape in England.



    Whew, sorry for the rant - and I really apologise to the OP, but these things are important to consider when speaking about our "nation of laws" and how when you really start looking at it - is very destructive. Something to consider - the US has 25% of the worlds prison population, the US has more people in prison than CHINA - you know, the big bad communist country? Most of these people are there for what I like to call "consentual crimes" I.E. prostitution, drug possession, NFA violations, etc......this is not protecting "life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness" at all.
     
  10. Texan2

    Texan2 TGT Addict

    7,952
    0
    36
    Nov 8, 2008
    South of San Antonio
    You are very articulate and make good points on many issues, but comparing those on trial at Nuremburg, committing genocide, to Texas police enforcing traffic laws is a bit of a stretch (to put it mildly).
    Fact of the matter is that the majority of our nation is ok with the laws we have. They may say otherwise in a poll, but the reality is that they are....or they would do something to change it.
    I read some of the website you cited and it is (in my opinion)a very left leaning, (i'm sure they would call it more "libertarian")activist site that is using their interpretation, just as many others with different views do. They state many items as fact that are merely opinion and do no state where the basis is for that interpretation.
    The good thing is that we are free to leave, unlike those in China or other communist countries. If this place is no longer what we think it should be or will be, we can opt to go somewhere we feels suits us better. Many Americans have moved to Costa Rica, Switzerland, and other places that (for whatever reason) they feel is more suited to their beliefs.

    I think that it is good to challenge govt. I often ask my officers to tell me what gives them the right to do something they just did....

    I think our base views may be closer than you think, you just carry them to an extreme in your attempt to make your point.
     

Share This Page