Leaving gun in car at work

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  • Pawpaw40

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    My employer does not allow firearms on company property, including parking lots. Will the law that allows carrying concealed in your vehicle protect my job if my employer does a search? I believe Oklahoma and Florida are passing, or have passed, laws that protect employee rights to keep weapons in their locked personal vehicles, even in parking lots. Do we have the same protections here in God's country?
    Venture Surplus ad
     

    juwaba98

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    Not sure of the legal aspect, but why would your employer search your car? I'm not that old having only been in the workforce for 15 years or so, but I've never worried about a search of my vehicle by an employer. Hell my last employer didn't even care when my vehicle was damaged on two occasions and broken into on their property.
     

    txinvestigator

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    My employer does not allow firearms on company property, including parking lots. Will the law that allows carrying concealed in your vehicle protect my job if my employer does a search? I believe Oklahoma and Florida are passing, or have passed, laws that protect employee rights to keep weapons in their locked personal vehicles, even in parking lots. Do we have the same protections here in God's country?

    You can be fired for violating the company policies.

    Can you be charged?......................

    30.06 only applies if you are carrying under the authority of a CHL. So if you have a CHL and the company meets the requirement of the 30.06 law, then you could be charged with that.

    No CHL then you could be charged with Criminal Trespass.

    Texas tried to introduce a law last session that would have helped prevent that, but it failed. I don't know if there will besuch an attempt this session.
     

    Pawpaw40

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    There was a case in Arkansas I believe where a lumbermill asked the local law enforcement folks to help check for illegal drugs. The dog that was used reacted positively for both weapons and drugs, resulting in the firing of several employees for violating the company's firearm policy. Not being able to store my weapon in my locked private vehicle while at work, denies me the right of self defense while travelling to and from my place of employment.
     

    razor

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    Look this is what you do! Get a Xd or a simular gun and take the slide and barrel out while you are at work . You no longer have a gun ,you have gun parts!!!!! There is no law against having gun parts in your car in almost any parking lot.I can take my pistol appart in nearly 15 seconds and have it ready after I hit the road.I do agree on it hindering your ability to carry a weapon and it does offend our rights to carry one!!!


    As posted below this isnt legal. So dont doit!!!!
     

    kville79

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    Look this is what you do! Get a Xd or a simular gun and take the slide and barrel out while you are at work . You no longer have a gun ,you have gun parts!!!!! There is no law against having gun parts in your car in almost any parking lot.I can take my pistol appart in nearly 15 seconds and have it ready after I hit the road.I do agree on it hindering your ability to carry a weapon and it does offend our rights to carry one!!!

    Just a bit of info... The receiver/frame is the firearm, everything else is parts. Before you accidentally mislead anyone I would like to annotate that even if all parts are stripped from it, you still have a legally defined firearm in your vehicle if you have the pistol frame.
     

    Rapido

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    Here is what I found at www.gunlaws.com




    Motorists Protection ActHB 1815
    “Concealed Handguns in Vehicles OK” -- “Traveling” law confusion a thing of the past.
    The offense of illegally carrying a handgun, illegal knife or club has been removed from law if you are on your own premises, premises under your control, or inside or directly enroute to a motor vehicle you own or is under your control. The weapons remain illegal if you intentionally, knowingly or recklessly carry them in plain view in a motor vehicle, or are involved in certain criminal activity, are in a criminal gang, or cannot legally possess a firearm. This new law ends decades of legal abuse of innocent citizens under deceptive “traveling” rules, affirmative defenses, prosecutorial discretion, denials of civil rights and traps for the unwary.
    Texas thus becomes the fourth state to recognize Freedom to Carry (FTC) -- concealed carry with no permit -- at least under the narrow circumstances of in vehicles and on your premises. (The other three are Vermont, Alaska, and Montana outside of city limits. Arizona recognizes FTC in your home, business and on land you own or lease.) FTC differs from so-called “Right-to-Carry,” which requires a government-issued permit, forms, tests, taxation, fingerprinting, photographing, embedding in state and federal databases and an expiration date, for exercise of “rights.”
    Passed (5/26/07), Effective date 9/1/07.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Here is what I found at www.gunlaws.com




    Motorists Protection ActHB 1815
    “Concealed Handguns in Vehicles OK” -- “Traveling” law confusion a thing of the past.
    The offense of illegally carrying a handgun, illegal knife or club has been removed from law if you are on your own premises, premises under your control, or inside or directly enroute to a motor vehicle you own or is under your control. The weapons remain illegal if you intentionally, knowingly or recklessly carry them in plain view in a motor vehicle, or are involved in certain criminal activity, are in a criminal gang, or cannot legally possess a firearm. This new law ends decades of legal abuse of innocent citizens under deceptive “traveling” rules, affirmative defenses, prosecutorial discretion, denials of civil rights and traps for the unwary.
    Texas thus becomes the fourth state to recognize Freedom to Carry (FTC) -- concealed carry with no permit -- at least under the narrow circumstances of in vehicles and on your premises. (The other three are Vermont, Alaska, and Montana outside of city limits. Arizona recognizes FTC in your home, business and on land you own or lease.) FTC differs from so-called “Right-to-Carry,” which requires a government-issued permit, forms, tests, taxation, fingerprinting, photographing, embedding in state and federal databases and an expiration date, for exercise of “rights.”
    Passed (5/26/07), Effective date 9/1/07.

    That has no effect on a property owners right to control his property. If he posts a no firearms allowed sign, or gives notice to employees then those without a CHL violate the trespass law (penal code 30.05) by having the firearm there. CHLers who are given notice under 30.06 violate that law by having a handgun there.

    Think of it like this; it is legal to walk around without a shirt or shoes, but you violate the trespass law if you enter property without shirt or shoes if a sign is posted prohibiting that.
     

    razor

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    Just a bit of info... The receiver/frame is the firearm, everything else is parts. Before you accidentally mislead anyone I would like to annotate that even if all parts are stripped from it, you still have a legally defined firearm in your vehicle if you have the pistol frame.


    Really? I had no Idea...Thanks.
     

    40Arpent

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    Yes, really. The frame/receiver/lower is that part of the weapon that bears the serial number, therefore, it is the gun no matter what parts are attached to it or not attached (like Kville said). That's why people are buying up AR15 lowers...a lower cost alternative for buying the "guns" that might be impacted by any AW bans.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Yes, really. The frame/receiver/lower is that part of the weapon that bears the serial number, therefore, it is the gun no matter what parts are attached to it or not attached (like Kville said). That's why people are buying up AR15 lowers...a lower cost alternative for buying the "guns" that might be impacted by any AW bans.


    Texas does not define firearm in that manner. I do not know of any case law wherein a peson was convicted of carrying a firearm illegally for having a receiver only in his/her possession.

    I realize what federal law reads, but the Texas statute of PC 30.06 uses the penal code for definitions, not federal law. ;)
     

    eriadoc

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    FWIW, the CHL instructor at Top Gun, in Houston, told me directly that publicly accessible parking garages are not controlled by 30.06 laws. In my case, the company has a parking garage that has parking card access, but since they always have the gates open, it's publicly accessible. Therefore, 30.06 would not apply to the parking garage. The building is an entirely different story. Similarly, I asked him about parking at Houston Texans games, since I'm a season ticket holder, and he said that the paid parking there qualifies as publicly accessible parking, and leaving your firearm in your vehicle is 100% legal.

    My building has no 30.06 sign posted anyway, and I haven't carried to Texans games anyway. So take it FWIW. *shrug*

    EDIT TO ADD - I am not a lawyer, so read on your own and take responsibility for your own interpretation, but I think this is what covers it:

    Texas CHL Laws

    Quote:
    PC §46.03.

    Places Weapons Prohibited

    (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

    (1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

    (2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;

    (3) in any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;

    (4) on the premises of a racetrack; or

    (5) in or into a secured area of an airport.

    (b) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (a)(1)-(4) that the actor possessed a firearm while in the actual discharge of his official duties as a member of the armed forces or national guard or a guard employed by a penal institution, or an officer of the court.

    (c) In this section:

    (1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.

    (2) "Secured area" means an area of an airport terminal building to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property under federal law.
    So, on to Sec. 46.035 .....

    Quote:
    (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

    Again, I am not a lawyer, so you're on your own, but the link above is where you'll find the laws for TX.
     

    JKTex

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    FWIW, the CHL instructor at Top Gun, in Houston, told me directly that publicly accessible parking garages are not controlled by 30.06 laws. In my case, the company has a parking garage that has parking card access, but since they always have the gates open, it's publicly accessible.

    Be careful assuming things like that. It's splitting hairs, but
    in your case, if the parking is solely for tenant/employee parking, whether the access gates are functioning or not, doesn't make it "public access". It can be private parking and be open on all 4 sides and still be private, not public.

    If your company leases office space in the building and includess parking space (as most leases do), I'm not sure it's any different than if they owned it, as long as it's not multi-use including public parking.

    However, if the parking garage has public access for say, other tenants customers, people parking to go to other buildings etc., it's public access. Either case, I think you're good.

    Again, it's just splitting hairs because what would compel them to search a parking garage/lot like that looking for employees cars.
     

    txinvestigator

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    FWIW, the CHL instructor at Top Gun, in Houston, told me directly that publicly accessible parking garages are not controlled by 30.06 laws.
    He is wrong for one main reason, and even the reason he thinks covers it is wrong.

    1. 30.06 NEVER uses the term "premises" It uses the word PROPERTY.

    2. Even if it DID use the word "Premises", 30.06 would not be restricted by the definition in 46.035 as the definition reads, "IN THIS SECTION" . Chapter 30 is not in section 46; therefore, the definition in 46.035 is ONLY applicable to places listed in 46.03 and 46.035.

    The relevant sections;

    Texas Penal Code

    Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED

    (c) In this section:
    (1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035.

    Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

    (f) In this section:

    (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area

    As you can see, that specific definition of premises is confined to those sections.

    Now, if you read the relevant sections of 30.06;

    Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
    (1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
    (2) received notice that:
    (A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
    (B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

    A private property holder certainly can restrict carry in parking lots, garages, etc. If proper 30.06 notice is given and you carry there you violate the law.

    In my case, the company has a parking garage that has parking card access, but since they always have the gates open, it's publicly accessible. Therefore, 30.06 would not apply to the parking garage. The building is an entirely different story. Similarly, I asked him about parking at Houston Texans games, since I'm a season ticket holder, and he said that the paid parking there qualifies as publicly accessible parking, and leaving your firearm in your vehicle is 100% legal.
    As you can now see, it matters not if the parking is "publicly accessable". If 30.06 notice is given then carry there is illegal.
     

    DrBart2

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    The company my Wife works for requires all employees to sign an agreement to not carry weapons on the company's leased or owned property. If you do not sign you don't get the job. They have in writing what is considered a weapon and what is not. The employee has to also agree to letting them search their possessions, person and vehicle. Now what is the reality of the situation here. To our knowledge no employee or employee's vehicle has ever been searched. There is no 30.06 sign on the building. Lets say an employee carries a gun in their car and parks in the company's leased parking lot. Is this lawfully illegal?(no 30.06 sign) No. The only problem will be if the company requests a search and discovers the gun. The employee will be fired for not following company policy. Why would the company ask to search the employees vehicle? Good question! The employee would have to have given them a reason to believe that he or she was breaking company policy. Like having pictures of guns, knives, swords posted all over their work area or always be talking about guns and knives. Basically the employee would have to be showing some kind of behavior to concern them. Does the employee have to submit to the search? No, but they would probably be fired for not doing so because they signed an agreement to let a search happen. Basically, all that would happen to the employee is that they are fired, unless of course they were carrying a concealed firearm without a license. When I go visit my wife at work, I carry of course. I have a CCL and there are no postings on the building of any kind. I did not sign an agreement and they cannot search me. You basically have to decide whether it is worth working for a company that has a policy like that. My wife has a CCL but does not carry to or at work. She WILL request that the company sends a security guard out to walk her to her car when she wants, and they have done so without complaint. Her only risk is the drive home. The money she makes working for this company is VERY good. We have looked at all options, and she has decided to stay despite their stupid requirements. I am sure some of you would say it is not worth the risk. To be honest I would not be able to win the argument against you. It is a personal choice. Does she carry in her car anyway? Of course not.;) And no, I am not telling you where she works!
     

    txinvestigator

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    The company my Wife works for requires all employees to sign an agreement to not carry weapons on the company's leased or owned property. If you do not sign you don't get the job. They have in writing what is considered a weapon and what is not. The employee has to also agree to letting them search their possessions, person and vehicle. Now what is the reality of the situation here. To our knowledge no employee or employee's vehicle has ever been searched. There is no 30.06 sign on the building. Lets say an employee carries a gun in their car and parks in the company's leased parking lot. Is this lawfully illegal?(no 30.06 sign) No.
    Do you mean it is not illegal? A 30.06 sign is not required for you to receive 30.06 notice. If the agrement they sign reads identical to the following;

    "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun

    Then having the gun in the car is illegal. Minus that wording it is strictly an employment issue.


    BTW, you two have a CHL, unless you are carrying on some other state's license. ;)
     
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