Legality of CCW in privately owned businesses with no 30.06 signage

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  • dwsintxs

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    Recently there's been the media focus on Toby Keith and his restaurants, and he is (apparently) saying that they forbid guns in their restaurants.

    When I took my CHL class (don't have my plastic yet, so I'm not carrying) the instructor said that the gunbuster signage (and various other versions of the 30.06 signs with incorrect verbiage) is legall unenforcable.

    However, I also remember the CHL instructor saying that if a business owner verbally tells you that he doesn't allow guns, then you can't carry inside, even if you have a CHL.

    So, I am either misunderstanding something here, or just not clear on the mechanics of how a business owner can inform patrons of the business that guns aren't allowed.

    If a restaurant owner posts a 'gunbuster' sign on the door, isn't that an act of informing CHL'ers that they can't carry in that owners establishment? Or does it have to be face to face, verbally?

    Or, have I completely misunderstood everything? LOL

    Things like this are good to know before starting to carry, obviously. I want to be legal.

    Thanks in advance for helping a newbie understand.
     

    txinvestigator

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    The law says you commit an offense if you carry a handgun on the property of another without consent, AND you were either given notice that entry with a concealed handun was forbidden, OR you remained on the property after being given notice that remaining with your concealed handgun was forbidden.

    In this law, penal code 30.06, the word "notice" is defined as oral or written communication. Oral communication is not defined, so if someone with apparent authority to act for the owner, or the owner, tells you you cannot carry, then you commit an offense if you then enter or if you fail to leave if you are already there.

    Written communication IS defined. It is a card or document with specific language, normally called 30.06 language, or a sign posted on the property that meets the specific requirements.

    So let's look at a ghost busters sign posted at Joes Book Store. You do not know Joe, and you do not have his consent. Is the ghostbusters sign oral communication? No. Is it "written communication"? To know if the sign is written communication we ask ourselves this question, is it a card or other document with specific language? No. Is it a sign posted on the property? No

    So if you carry inside do you violate 30.06.
     
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    coachrick

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    If I'm understanding the term 'gunbusters' sign, it applies to non-CHL holders in places that serve alcohol. Darned near meaningless, I reckon, since it adds nothing to the law already in place regarding non-CHL holders carrying a concealed weapon.
     

    txinvestigator

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    If I'm understanding the term 'gunbusters' sign, it applies to non-CHL holders in places that serve alcohol. Darned near meaningless, I reckon, since it adds nothing to the law already in place regarding non-CHL holders carrying a concealed weapon.

    No, the ghostbusters sign is the picture of a gun with a circle around it and a slash through the gun.
     

    dwsintxs

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    No, the ghostbusters sign is the picture of a gun with a circle around it and a slash through the gun -

    Correct, this is what our CHL instructor called it, and he too, said it is meaningless.

    I'd like to add - my 'confusion' regarding this Toby Keith restaurant brouhaha, is that it's a private business, and he HAS made it publicly known that guns are not allowed in his properties/businesses, but let's say he DOESN'T post the 30.06 sign, and there is NO signage, written or otherwise saying guns not allowed. . . is he legal in forbidding CHL'ers to enter carrying?

    Or, this scenario . . .
    he HAS made it publicly known that guns are not allowed in his properties/businesses, but DOES post a gunbusters sign, or other (non 30.06) signage. . . 'guns not allowed' etc. Are CHL'ers allowed to carry inside?

    Still confused. LOL

     

    coachrick

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    No, the ghostbusters sign is the picture of a gun with a circle around it and a slash through the gun.

    Coulda sworn I saw that symbol superimposed over the text about 'unlicensed carry of a weapon in this establishment' blah, blah, blah...the one in nearly every fast casual restaurant that serves alcohol. Maybe I've never seen an actual gunbusters sign? I gotta get out more ;)
     

    txinvestigator

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    You only receive notice one of three ways;

    1. ANY verbal notice. Have you received verbal notice?

    2. A card or document with specific language? Have you received one of those?

    3. A sign posted on the property that meets the specific requirments. Does a ghostbusters sign meet that? Would a ghostbusters sign make it unlawful for you to carry there.
     

    dwsintxs

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    I don't know Toby Keith and have never heard him say no carry. So has he given me notice?

    Good point! As far as the Toby Keith restaurants, it's a moot point with me, because I ate there once and the food and service sucked.

    But I was just trying to apply those circumstances to any business owner's notice of no guns allowed, and understand the law more clearly.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Coulda sworn I saw that symbol superimposed over the text about 'unlicensed carry of a weapon in this establishment' blah, blah, blah...the one in nearly every fast casual restaurant that serves alcohol. Maybe I've never seen an actual gunbusters sign? I gotta get out more ;)

    I suppose a business could superimpose the ghostbusters over the "unlicensed possession" sign, but it is not typical. The "unlicensed possession" sign is required in all places that sell alcohol and are not 51%
     
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