Legality of CCW in privately owned businesses with no 30.06 signage

[oohrah]

One other point; Toby Keith's is an interstate company. In some states, any posted notification is a bar to concealed carry because those states do not define something like Texas' 30.06. In many ways, this written requirement is our friend.

 

[Tejano Scott]

In this law, penal code 30.06, the word "notice" is defined as oral or written communication. Oral communication is not defined, so if someone with apparent authority to act for the owner, or the owner, tells you you cannot carry, then you commit an offense if you then enter or if you fail to leave if you are already there.

I got to witness this first hand today at, of all places, a gun range!?!?! Doh. My Glock 19 printed at the range(since I was carrying OWB under a shirt and jacket- which I normally do when at a gun range) this morning. Totally my bad and not a typical situation for me, just being a little more relaxed than usual given I was at a gun range. Was asked to step inside the office. Asked if I was LEO. I responded, no. Asked if I had a CHL. Told, them of course- every one should have one, why? They ask me "why are you carrying a concealed firearm?" I responded, "did I miss a 30.06 sign or something?" To which he tells me to step outside to the parking lot. I walk out and he points to a sign that says "ALL GUNS MUST BE UNLOADED AND UNCASED BEFORE ENTERING RANGE" or something to that effect by the front door. I asked him, are you telling me you don't support my 2nd Amendment and state law right to carry a concealed handgun into a business with no 30.06 sign?" Their response "our lawyer says we don't need a 30.06 sign and that this sign is plenty. You are lucky we aren't kicking you out since you came with a large group of people. But if you're gonna shoot here, you won't do it with a concealed handgun". Since I was with a large group of my co-workers (one of whom has a membership with this range), I decided not to make a huge stand other than to tell them I don't typically patronize businesses who are anti-2nd amendment. I also reminded him that I was aware of at least 4 deaths that happened at gun ranges last year that were not accidents, and one of them was much more of badass and capable of defending themselves than me. Perhaps you heard of Chris Kyle? They were relatively polite about the situation, albeit very backwards thinking. I felt safe enough given that I was with trusted friends that I knew were CC'ing. It definitely put a damper on the day and I just slowly, without making a huge scene, just started packing my gear back to the truck.

For those of you interested... Texas City Municipal Gun Range does not support the 2nd amendment, state law, or your right to concealed carry. Completely bizarre coming from a gun range, but I suppose they don't give a shit since they are a municipal range. If I hadn't paid for several folks to shoot and been with a large group, I fully take them at their word that they would have kicked me out. I won't derail this thread with everything else that happened, that will probably be another thread soon. I want to make sure to get the word out on these guys.

 

[cbigclarke]

The problem with you Scott, is you don't carry a black person with you enough.

Heaven, and earth would be moved to accommodate you when there is a negro with you. Keep that mind

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[txinvestigator]

Tejano Scott, I will tell you how clueless they are; you do not need a CHL to carry at a gun range under the law. The law that prohibits the carry of handguns (penal code 46.02) does not apply at a gun range. Period. Since 46.02 does not apply, one does not need a CHL (one of the other exceptions to 46.02) to carry there, 30.06 does not apply.

Hell, legally you can open carry there.


Their "rule" is just that; a rule. They can only ask you to leave if you do not follow their rules. Regular trespass, penal code 30.05, would apply if you refused to leave.

 

[stdreb27]

I got to witness this first hand today at, of all places, a gun range!?!?! Doh. My Glock 19 printed at the range(since I was carrying OWB under a shirt and jacket- which I normally do when at a gun range) this morning. Totally my bad and not a typical situation for me, just being a little more relaxed than usual given I was at a gun range. Was asked to step inside the office. Asked if I was LEO. I responded, no. Asked if I had a CHL. Told, them of course- every one should have one, why? They ask me "why are you carrying a concealed firearm?" I responded, "did I miss a 30.06 sign or something?" To which he tells me to step outside to the parking lot. I walk out and he points to a sign that says "ALL GUNS MUST BE UNLOADED AND UNCASED BEFORE ENTERING RANGE" or something to that effect by the front door. I asked him, are you telling me you don't support my 2nd Amendment and state law right to carry a concealed handgun into a business with no 30.06 sign?" Their response "our lawyer says we don't need a 30.06 sign and that this sign is plenty. You are lucky we aren't kicking you out since you came with a large group of people. But if you're gonna shoot here, you won't do it with a concealed handgun". Since I was with a large group of my co-workers (one of whom has a membership with this range), I decided not to make a huge stand other than to tell them I don't typically patronize businesses who are anti-2nd amendment. I also reminded him that I was aware of at least 4 deaths that happened at gun ranges last year that were not accidents, and one of them was much more of badass and capable of defending themselves than me. Perhaps you heard of Chris Kyle? They were relatively polite about the situation, albeit very backwards thinking. I felt safe enough given that I was with trusted friends that I knew were CC'ing. It definitely put a damper on the day and I just slowly, without making a huge scene, just started packing my gear back to the truck.

For those of you interested... Texas City Municipal Gun Range does not support the 2nd amendment, state law, or your right to concealed carry. Completely bizarre coming from a gun range, but I suppose they don't give a shit since they are a municipal range. If I hadn't paid for several folks to shoot and been with a large group, I fully take them at their word that they would have kicked me out. I won't derail this thread with everything else that happened, that will probably be another thread soon. I want to make sure to get the word out on these guys.

They are city owned?

They need better lawyers.

 

[Jlrockboy]

Any time I see a anti-gun sign, I do not enter the business. I take myself and money else were to shop.

 

[Dash Riprock]

Any time I see a anti-gun sign, I do not enter the business. I take myself and money else were to shop.

As I mentioned earlier, what if the owner knowingly put up a meaningless gunbusters sign to keep ignorant anti's from complaining?

 

[Mreed911]

I've even carried places that don't have the required Spanish, also assuming the owner knew it wasn't compliant but wanted to look like it...

 

[RobbieH]

Any time I see a anti-gun sign, I do not enter the business. I take myself and money else were to shop.

Ditto, good sir..

 

[jordanmills]

1. ANY verbal notice. Have you received verbal notice?

Oral, not verbal. Verbal is anything with words and could be written or spoken. Oral is spoken word.

 

[jordanmills]

I was specifically told that the TEXAS 30.06 sign and the TABC 51% signs are the only enforceable signs used in Texas. I have shopped in stores carrying my EDC that have had the SIMPLE NO GUNS ALLOWED. I recently went to an Asian mall that had the sign on the door that said NO GUNS- NO POP POP. What the heck does that mean anyway. Inside the store i went had the basic no unlicensed carry signage. The CHL class I took was very specific about what no gun signs you can and can't ignore. View attachment 25859 View attachment 25860 View attachment 25861

The middle one doesn't comply either. White on clear is not contrasting.

 

[jordanmills]

I got to witness this first hand today at, of all places, a gun range!?!?! Doh. My Glock 19 printed at the range(since I was carrying OWB under a shirt and jacket- which I normally do when at a gun range) this morning. Totally my bad and not a typical situation for me, just being a little more relaxed than usual given I was at a gun range. Was asked to step inside the office. Asked if I was LEO. I responded, no. Asked if I had a CHL. Told, them of course- every one should have one, why? They ask me "why are you carrying a concealed firearm?" I responded, "did I miss a 30.06 sign or something?" To which he tells me to step outside to the parking lot. I walk out and he points to a sign that says "ALL GUNS MUST BE UNLOADED AND UNCASED BEFORE ENTERING RANGE" or something to that effect by the front door. I asked him, are you telling me you don't support my 2nd Amendment and state law right to carry a concealed handgun into a business with no 30.06 sign?" Their response "our lawyer says we don't need a 30.06 sign and that this sign is plenty. You are lucky we aren't kicking you out since you came with a large group of people. But if you're gonna shoot here, you won't do it with a concealed handgun". Since I was with a large group of my co-workers (one of whom has a membership with this range), I decided not to make a huge stand other than to tell them I don't typically patronize businesses who are anti-2nd amendment. I also reminded him that I was aware of at least 4 deaths that happened at gun ranges last year that were not accidents, and one of them was much more of badass and capable of defending themselves than me. Perhaps you heard of Chris Kyle? They were relatively polite about the situation, albeit very backwards thinking. I felt safe enough given that I was with trusted friends that I knew were CC'ing. It definitely put a damper on the day and I just slowly, without making a huge scene, just started packing my gear back to the truck.

For those of you interested... Texas City Municipal Gun Range does not support the 2nd amendment, state law, or your right to concealed carry. Completely bizarre coming from a gun range, but I suppose they don't give a shit since they are a municipal range. If I hadn't paid for several folks to shoot and been with a large group, I fully take them at their word that they would have kicked me out. I won't derail this thread with everything else that happened, that will probably be another thread soon. I want to make sure to get the word out on these guys.

Sounds more like al trug a few miles up the road.

Texas city gun range is owned by the city. They can't give notice, written or oral.

 

[Mreed911]

The middle one doesn't comply either. White on clear is not contrasting.

Not being argumentative - is there case law on this?

 

[txinvestigator]

Sounds more like al trug a few miles up the road.

Texas city gun range is owned by the city. They can't give notice, written or oral.

It is a gun range, CHL is irrelevant there.

 

[Mreed911]

Sounds more like al trug a few miles up the road.

Texas city gun range is owned by the city. They can't give notice, written or oral.

They can, however, post rules and if you don't comply can ask you to leave for non-compliance, then use traditional Criminal Trespass to enforce.

 

[txinvestigator]

The middle one doesn't comply either. White on clear is not contrasting.

Who says? The law says contrasting, not opposite. Could you see it? If so, I'd say it is contrasting.

 

[V-Tach]

Our sign says all firearms must be unloaded and in a case.....

"LEO and CHL Excluded"

Suffice it to say, we still get asked if we mean CHL holders.

Why do we have the policy? Many firearms have been brought in to the shop unloaded only to have a round ejected when we check them. When someone walks into the shop with a gun in their hand, we don't know their intentions. Unfortunately people do try to rob gun shops. What other business would you walk through the door with a pistol in your hand?

But not allowing CHL holders carry while on the range?..That's just dumb.

 

[Das Jared]

I got to witness this first hand today at, of all places, a gun range!?!?! Doh. My Glock 19 printed at the range(since I was carrying OWB under a shirt and jacket- which I normally do when at a gun range) this morning. Totally my bad and not a typical situation for me, just being a little more relaxed than usual given I was at a gun range. Was asked to step inside the office. Asked if I was LEO. I responded, no. Asked if I had a CHL. Told, them of course- every one should have one, why? They ask me "why are you carrying a concealed firearm?" I responded, "did I miss a 30.06 sign or something?" To which he tells me to step outside to the parking lot. I walk out and he points to a sign that says "ALL GUNS MUST BE UNLOADED AND UNCASED BEFORE ENTERING RANGE" or something to that effect by the front door. I asked him, are you telling me you don't support my 2nd Amendment and state law right to carry a concealed handgun into a business with no 30.06 sign?" Their response "our lawyer says we don't need a 30.06 sign and that this sign is plenty. You are lucky we aren't kicking you out since you came with a large group of people. But if you're gonna shoot here, you won't do it with a concealed handgun". Since I was with a large group of my co-workers (one of whom has a membership with this range), I decided not to make a huge stand other than to tell them I don't typically patronize businesses who are anti-2nd amendment. I also reminded him that I was aware of at least 4 deaths that happened at gun ranges last year that were not accidents, and one of them was much more of badass and capable of defending themselves than me. Perhaps you heard of Chris Kyle? They were relatively polite about the situation, albeit very backwards thinking. I felt safe enough given that I was with trusted friends that I knew were CC'ing. It definitely put a damper on the day and I just slowly, without making a huge scene, just started packing my gear back to the truck.

For those of you interested... Texas City Municipal Gun Range does not support the 2nd amendment, state law, or your right to concealed carry. Completely bizarre coming from a gun range, but I suppose they don't give a shit since they are a municipal range. If I hadn't paid for several folks to shoot and been with a large group, I fully take them at their word that they would have kicked me out. I won't derail this thread with everything else that happened, that will probably be another thread soon. I want to make sure to get the word out on these guys.

Yup. We won't be going back there. Utterly ridiculous

sent from Jennifer Lawrence's bedroom

 

[Pilgrim]

nm

LOL. I think I may have read Renegade's mind there...

 

[jordanmills]

Not being argumentative - is there case law on this?

Not that I'm aware of, but "clear" doesn't contrast with anything. It's pretty easy to trot out documentation of that.

Who says? The law says contrasting, not opposite. Could you see it? If so, I'd say it is contrasting.

I say. Actually I usually find it pretty hard to read white-on-clear or frosted-on-clear lettering from more than a couple of feet away. Businesses normally use that scheme specifically to keep things from being conspicuous.