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Lessons learned from a Wallyworld parking lot

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  • gcmj45acp

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    A friend of mine relayed a story to me last night in which a legally armed citizen found himself in a quandary about whether or not to intervene in a situation he saw developing. Imagine for a moment that you've just left Wallyworld and are walking toward your vehicle when you hear a woman screaming "Stop, stop, stop!!!" at the top of her lungs.

    You look to your left to see a woman looking toward a long-haired, unshaven man who is turning to run away from the woman as she continues to scream. Cars moving through the parking lot are blocking your view so you do not see a weapon and really can't see anything other than the man's head and shoulders which keep getting lower as if he's trying to run in a nearly crouched position and the two of you are basically on an intercept path as soon as the next vehicle passes between you.

    The woman is visibly upset and still screaming "Stop!" in the man's direction as he runs away. Other people are now starting to shout and point in the man's direction as he's running. Given this information, if you saw the same thing happening, what would you think/do?
     

    matefrio

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    Anyone's life in danger? Seems not in this situation - I try and become a good witness.

    Let me ask you and your friend this: You go after him and catch him or corner him, then what? You have enough training or equipment to detain the guy verbally or while using the threat of deadly force?

    A big assumption is something he did is wrong. Do you know if he has a partner or more guys that are watching near by and is he armed? I always assume multiple threats.

    Say you try and tackle him. You have the skills to fight off a guy with a knife or a gun? Even if you had the skills and are a black belt in three disciplines of martial arts and special forces from the .mil what's the risk versus the reward of catching the guy? What would be your motive in intervening in a half blind situation?

    More bluntly a CHL isn't a superhero license.
     
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    gcmj45acp

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    Indeed. That's the point of the exercise here. Is there enough information to suggest anyone's life is in danger? Is there enough information to suggest intervention even without the use or threat of deadly force?
     

    Renegade

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    A big assumption is something he did is wrong. Do you know if he has a partner or more guys that are watching near by and is he armed? I always assume multiple threats.

    Exactly. The two people could be unconnected. Or the man could be a process server who just served the woman, or he could be a repo man telling he took her car and where to go claim it. Lots of legal things might have happened.
     

    Renegade

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    +1 But is he a suspect. He's a man running through a parking lot. The woman is simply screaming stop. Is there even enough info to justify a call to 911?

    911 will decide if it is worthy to send an officer or not based on what you tell them.
     

    matefrio

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    Indeed. That's the point of the exercise here. Is there enough information to suggest anyone's life is in danger? Is there enough information to suggest intervention even without the use or threat of deadly force?

    He's running away, so no. Seems the only person whose life could be in danger is the person who has a few moments to decide of their own free will rather or not to inject themselves into the situation.

    Although not wise they have the right to confront the man running away. I wouldn't for reasons above. If the confronted and then the man becomes a threat, deadly force could come into play at that point.

    Just realize the outcome for that momentary sense of justice will be replaced with a reality that could equal Zimmerman's predicament.
     

    Renegade

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    He's running away, so no. Seems the only person whose life could be in danger is the person who has a few moments to decide of their own free will rather or not to inject themselves into the situation.

    Although not wise they have the right to confront the man running away. I wouldn't for reasons above. If the confronted and then the man becomes a threat, deadly force could come into play at that point.

    Just realize the outcome for that momentary sense of justice will be replaced with a reality that could equal Zimmerman's predicament.

    Your analysis if this scenario has been excellent. Just thought I would mention that.
     

    Bozz10mm

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    All we have is a man running through a parking lot and a woman screaming stop. Maybe the guy is just in a hurry, and the woman is yelling at someone else who was driving off with a bag of groceries on top of their car. Absolutely does not warrant the use of force.
     

    Younggun

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    A lot more information might become available once the man is in full view.

    There are few details and the action (or inaction) that I might or might decide on would continue to change until the situation is over.

    What if the car pulls out of the way and you see he is carrying a child or a purse?

    Right now it's just a woman screaming "stop" at a running man. If she were screaming "help" it would cause me to react differently also.


    As for the CHL comment about not being a "superhero license", I totally agree. That doesn't mean that a good deed should not be done from time to time.

    If the car moves and I see the guy is running with a pink purse in his arms and will pass very close to me I might just let a foot slip in to his path. That is not an action based on weather or not I am armed and not an absolute action to be taken.


    The amount of information we are able to process in a given situation is immeasurable, which is why it is impossible to get a real world answer for these "what if" scenarios. We all fill in the gaps and each of us will fill it in with different minute details that form the whole picture. My picture will not look like anyone else's picture.

    That said, with that much missing information I will be nothing more than a witness to a woman screaming and a man running passed some cars. And TBH, I have seen much stranger things at Walmart.
     

    35Remington

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    Maybe the man's name is Stop, and he has just announced to the woman that he is joining the Diablos, a gay fag football team in San Antonio. In that case, someone should put the poor guy out of his misery.
     

    jordanmills

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    Note a description of the situation and people involved. Call the police. Follow their requests - likely including making sure nobody has injuries and seeing where the involved people went.

    For all you know, she just tried to rob him on a bad craigslist deal and he thought it was smarter to leave than shoot her. I think it is often unwise to start shooting over someone else's stuff or things that have already happened.

    Edit: note that I don't have a wife and kids so the above assumes I'm alone.
     
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    kusai

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    Been in the exact situation,

    Guy (probably shop lifter) running in parking lot, coming towards me. I saw him from a distance and got wife and kids in car first, ready to draw and the guy just passed by followed by a good citizen trying to catch him, luckily cops were circling the parking lot and got him in a min.

    But lesson learned in less than 2 min situation was

    1. He was not armed, but definitely a committed some crime and running away.
    2. Family together ? secure them first
    3. Get ready for whatever is coming
     

    txbikerman

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    Been in the exact situation,

    Guy (probably shop lifter) running in parking lot, coming towards me. I saw him from a distance and got wife and kids in car first, ready to draw and the guy just passed by followed by a good citizen trying to catch him, luckily cops were circling the parking lot and got him in a min.

    But lesson learned in less than 2 min situation was

    1. He was not armed, but definitely a committed some crime and running away.
    2. Family together ? secure them first
    3. Get ready for whatever is coming
    makes sense, take care of your own first ,then get ready
     

    TX69

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    1. Call 911
    2. Fall to the ground collapsing into a fetal position
    3. Urinate yourself when you hear the sirens of help coming to save you

    at least that's what I would do
     
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