Lethal force question

[Hoji]

I don't know. I do Know that it would be a lot cheaper to report a stolen car than to go threw a civil trial.

Probably would not be a civil trial. He has effectively posted his intent or desire to kill a car thief for the entire world to see on the internet.

It would certainly be cheaper to add theft insurance as opposed to the tens of thousands it will cost to defend a murder charge.

 

[APatriot]

Just to throw my "two cents" in, a car is not worth it. Now, someone at night on your property, possibly trying to steal your car let's say in the garage, or whatever, (since you have no idea at night why they are on your property is a different story), but then you are living in an apartment complex.

I think the best advice, is to reserve lethal force to protect you and your family, and if need be, a third party who's life is being threatened.

I am not sure I could live with the fact I took someone's life over a vehicle which is insured.

But keep in mind, there are no ridiculous questions to ask when the subject is lethal force. That is why we have "Texas Gun Talk". Take care, and get a CHL license. The piece of mind is gratifying, although the responsibility is significant.

 

[Big country]

But keep in mind, there are no ridiculous questions to ask when the subject is lethal force.

Thats right. If you ever have to use lethal force to protect yourself or your family, you want to know the answers to even the "ridiculous" questions can be the ones that keep you from doing something wrong and going to jail. And what Hoji said is very true, the extra car insurance is cheaper than the court house.

 

[speed007]

Really? Why would you "have to shoot someone" The only thing I can think of is if he exits the vehicle and threatens to harm you , or they get your car started , and attempt to run you over.

Killing someone over your car is juvenile, and stating that you would do it on a public forum is harmful to the pro gun community.

There is a reason we carry auto insurance, it will be cheaper than your attorney fees in your murder trial.

The reasons are the ones you stated in your post. If I catch the guy in the process of stealing my car and he charges me or he tries to attack me with a screw driver or tries to run me over then I won't hesitate to put him down. As I stated on my previous post, at that point IT IS HIS DECISION (based on his actions) if he wants to live. I REALLY, REALLY hope that he just runs away. If he runs away I will just call the cops and let them deal with it.

 

[speed007]

While I don't like the idea of killing somebody over physical property, I feel comforted by the fact that some people do just that. It prevents the theives from operating with a sense of impunity, leaving them to work away from prying eyes. I don't know what, exactly, I would do in such a situation. However, as a gun owner, I have a lot of options shall I ever find out.

My thoughts exactly. The problem with car thieves is that they aren't going to stop at small time thievery. They are eventually going to commit bigger and badder crimes. For the one thief that "finds god" or whatever and goes on to live a straight life, there are nine others who will keep committing worse crimes until they kill someone or they get put away for life. If the situation presents itself (meaning its within the law), I vote you put them down before their criminal career advances.

 

[Big country]

My thoughts exactly. The problem with car thieves is that they aren't going to stop at small time thievery. They are eventually going to commit bigger and badder crimes. For the one thief that "finds god" or whatever and goes on to live a straight life, there are nine others who will keep committing worse crimes until they kill someone or they get put away for life. If the situation presents itself (meaning its within the law), I vote you put them down before their criminal career advances.

Okay! Now that is what Hoji was just telling you about. That is a statement that sounds like you would prefer to kill the car thief rather than let him walk/run away and get a good description for the police. And if you pop the car thief and the police find that you made a statement like this you will not likely win you trial by the 12 people that are just trying to get out of the jury room as fast as possible. Some people just don't listen.

 

[speed007]

Just remember Joe Horn. I have no idea how much his legal fees cost him..

Joe Horn shooting controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We all know Joe Horn did the right thing. Cost shouldn't be a factor when deciding whether or not to do the right thing. That's just my opinion.

 

[Jason]

I view it as my stuff is MY STUFF, I wanted to unload a clip into the roof of my 88 Mustang when some cocksucker kicked in the window to try and steal it. The problem was mainly that the noise woke a neighbor up and scared the scumbag off before I get out out and aimed. I didn't have insurance on that car as I had just traded my ex's brother for it that day and the insurance place was closed already.

I would have filed a civil suit it's family for the damages and cleaning bill to my car...

 

[djspump2003]

Thanks for the responses gents. Out of curiosity, on what grounds could the family sue me I wonder? Also, what are the chances that the "family" of some low life that likes to steal cars is going to have the know how or the resources to sue anyone?

I agree that shooting someone over a car does not make sense. I would never do it unless I had too. If I ever catch a guy in the act I really hope he just runs away. The way I see it, it is up to him (the car thief) if he wants to live or die at that point.

It isn't how intelligent or educated the family of the low-life is that will get you sued. It is what lawyer in the ACLU branch in your city is paying attention to the press that your story gets. The ACLU will gladly educate your deceased's low-life family pro-bono in whatever language it is that they speak just to make your life a living hell and cost you $$$.

I agree that if you use deadly force it should only be out of fear of death or serious bodily injury to yourself or your family even though you are within your rights to defend your property. We could play the what-if game until we determine that deadly force should be used in every eventuality b/c somehow the thief could now find your address and be waiting for you when you get home one day.

Bottom line is draw your weapon and give the thief a choice (only if it is your car, not if they are in your home). The 2 alternatives are obvious and his decision b/t the 2 should also be obvious. If you are the only witness, how much easier does it get?

 

[KellyAsh]

Ive thought about what I would do should I find someone trying to steal my truck a million times and the conclusion Ive come to is this. In my job now, I carry all of my tools in my truck that enable me to provide for my family. There are entirely too many tools for me to be expected to unload and load my truck every morning and night. I have a right to keep what is essentially my liveliehood locked up secure in my truck.

When a thief comes to take my truck, he is not only stealing my truck, which is over 10 yrs old and not covered by full coverage, he is stealing my livelihood as well as my ability to support my children. Its ALOT more than just a $5,000 vehicle, it is damned near EVERYTHING to me.

If this thief takes my truck, it would take me, literally, over a year to get my life back to where it was the moment before my truck was stolen.

So, for me, the question becomes, "Is this "takers" life worth my livelihood that Ive spent my entire life creating as well as my children's financial support for the next year?"

My answer is that I will do whatever it takes for me to retain what I have created for myself and my family. The cost of losing it would be more than the cost of fighting a court battle and certainly more than I could bear personally if I simply stood by and let it happen.

If I can see the thief in the day, and I have the opportunity to lay hands on him/her I will use that level of force to avoid the consequences of theft and let the thief decide the escalation of force.

If its at night, I cant tell if he/she has a gun themselves and would have no choice but to assume they did. I would be stupid to assume they didnt and that would leave me with no choice.

I would absolutely HATE to have to shoot anyone, especially over material objects, but in this case the sum of these material objects equals much more than their monetary value.

 

[ConnRadd]

We all know Joe Horn did the right thing. Cost shouldn't be a factor when deciding whether or not to do the right thing. That's just my opinion.

In some ways I do agree, but only if life was in immediate danger.. Horn could as easily shot them with a digital camera and called the police. By all right, Horn was in the right; but we live in this wonderful nation where an illegal can sue you in a civil court, costing you 10s of thousands of dollars; it's crazy. So, if you live in my neighborhood and I see someone coming out of your window, I'll be kind enough to call the police and get the best description that I can. My goal is to live long enough to take care of my family. Not risking my life or my life style to someone else's property... It's your choice on what you want to do, but remember you have to live with the consequences. It being right or not...

 

[ConnRadd]

To everyone who is wanting to protect their property. Just keep in mind, the scum bag that's trying to take it; how many others are there you don't see?? Read in the papers, often more times than not, I bet there's at least 2 others... You can fight or shoot one, but could also get shot at the same time...

 

[Texas42]

When a thief comes to take my truck, he is not only stealing my truck, which is over 10 yrs old and not covered by full coverage, he is stealing my livelihood as well as my ability to support my children. Its ALOT more than just a $5,000 vehicle, it is damned near EVERYTHING to me.

.

I'd recommend a garage and/or property and causulty insurance.

I think it would be a lot cheaper in the long run, not to mention it is good odds that you won't figure out you've been robbed till the next day.

 

[Big country]

If you catch someone breaking into your truck. Draw your weapon and order them to the ground and call the police. IF YOU CATCH THEM! It is likely that you will be sound asleep or in the store if they break in to your vehicle. I think the law reads that you can use the threat of deadly force to affect an arrest. I'm not sure about that. If it is day time and you happen to catch someone breaking into your vehicle, get a good description of the person and see what direction they are going if they get that far. Do not immediately run inside to get the security staff, as that will not help anyone. But if you have to use your weapon it you will likely catch a lot of hell for it. If I were in that situation I would probably draw my weapon and order them to the ground and call the police. If it is night time I will light them up like a Christmas tree with my porch light and my 3-D cell LED Mag light that I carry at work and do the same. Someone said they will run you are right likely when the porch light comes on they will split but I will say they will not leave with a car that has liability only. But if I can avoid a gun fight I will do so, and I will have my wife call the police or I will call them my self and put them on speaker phone. Hey that gives me an idea, now I need a Blue tooth.

 

[lazypineapple]

in Texas you cannot be sued in Civil court my a BG that was injured while commiting a crime'

CPRC

g 83.001. ClVlL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or​

deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune
from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.​

​

​

​

since we play what if.​

what if you let them go. with your insured car,
and then they run a red light and kills a family of 4.
or
a surviving member finds out you let the BG go instead of stopping them.
Now who's open for a Civil suit ?
​

 

[DCortez]

in Texas you cannot be sued in Civil court my a BG that was injured while commiting a crime'

CPRC

g 83.001. ClVlL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or​

​

​

​

deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune​

from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.​

since we play what if.​

what if you let them go. with your insured car,
and then they run a red light and kills a family of 4.
or
a surviving member finds out you let the BG go instead of stopping them.
Now who's open for a Civil suit ?​

Yup, that's a big what if

 

[Texas1911]

Okay! Now that is what Hoji was just telling you about. That is a statement that sounds like you would prefer to kill the car thief rather than let him walk/run away and get a good description for the police. And if you pop the car thief and the police find that you made a statement like this you will not likely win you trial by the 12 people that are just trying to get out of the jury room as fast as possible. Some people just don't listen.

It's not like it's illegal to defend your property by state law. It might not be the smartest choice, but it's legal.

 

[Big country]

It's not like it's illegal to defend your property by state law. It might not be the smartest choice, but it's legal.

That is all I was saying. But If he goes to trail and the jury finds that he has made a statement like this They will burn him in court. That is what Hoji was saying. And I agree wholeheartedly. But Legal yes, smart it all depends on the situation.

 

[Texas1911]

That is all I was saying. But If he goes to trail and the jury finds that he has made a statement like this They will burn him in court. That is what Hoji was saying. And I agree wholeheartedly. But Legal yes, smart it all depends on the situation.

How are they going to burn him in court? For deciding that he is going to legally defend his property with deadly force? I don't think this comment is as condemning as people make it out to be.

The same logic can be applied to anyone that carries a gun. That you are simply looking for a chance to kill someone. That's how anti's think, and that's the angle the prosecution is always going to come out with. Joe Horn even said on the phone that he was going to go stop them, he confronted them, and tried the case. There was every reason to condemn him for his comments, but he was no-billed. Why? Because it was found to be legal.

There's alot more physical evidence to someone breaking into your vehicle than there was in the Joe Horn case, and he had every chance to avoid the confrontation.

I'm not advocating people running out guns blazing and picking fights with every thief out there, because frankly, it's not worth the risk in my opinion, but I also think alot is being read off the face value.

 

[speed007]

Ive thought about what I would do should I find someone trying to steal my truck a million times and the conclusion Ive come to is this. In my job now, I carry all of my tools in my truck that enable me to provide for my family. There are entirely too many tools for me to be expected to unload and load my truck every morning and night. I have a right to keep what is essentially my liveliehood locked up secure in my truck.

When a thief comes to take my truck, he is not only stealing my truck, which is over 10 yrs old and not covered by full coverage, he is stealing my livelihood as well as my ability to support my children. Its ALOT more than just a $5,000 vehicle, it is damned near EVERYTHING to me.

If this thief takes my truck, it would take me, literally, over a year to get my life back to where it was the moment before my truck was stolen.

So, for me, the question becomes, "Is this "takers" life worth my livelihood that Ive spent my entire life creating as well as my children's financial support for the next year?"

My answer is that I will do whatever it takes for me to retain what I have created for myself and my family. The cost of losing it would be more than the cost of fighting a court battle and certainly more than I could bear personally if I simply stood by and let it happen.

If I can see the thief in the day, and I have the opportunity to lay hands on him/her I will use that level of force to avoid the consequences of theft and let the thief decide the escalation of force.

If its at night, I cant tell if he/she has a gun themselves and would have no choice but to assume they did. I would be stupid to assume they didnt and that would leave me with no choice.

I would absolutely HATE to have to shoot anyone, especially over material objects, but in this case the sum of these material objects equals much more than their monetary value.

You and I are in the exact same situation. I also have all my expensive tools, that I earn a living with, in my truck. Without those tools I am out on the street. Even though it takes me about 20 minutes to take all the tools into my apartment I do take them in most nights. The only time I dont take them in is on nights when I am too tired. LUCKILY when my truck was stolen last week all the tools where in my apartment. If this ever happens again and my tools are in the truck, I only have one option. And that is to stop the thief at all costs by any means necessary.