Leupold Erases American Values

[leVieux]

Leupold Denounces Oregon Ballot Measure 114 | Leupold

Leupold & Stevens, Inc., provider of the world’s most rugged, lightweight, and clear sport optics, denounces recently passed Oregon Ballot Measure 114 and has announced full support for the National S

www.leupold.com

Leupold is working to fight the Measure 114 monstrosity in Oregon.
Quote from that article: “As the NSSF and others have shown, Ballot Measure 114 does nothing to curb violence and instead simply threatens the rights of law-abiding gun owners and hunters throughout Oregon,” said Bruce Pettet, President and Chief Executive Officer for Leupold & Stevens, Inc. “It is universally opposed by law enforcement agencies and conservation groups alike and is a violation of the Second Amendment rights that all hunters and gun owners hold dear. We stand with the NSSF and are ready to do everything we can to support the cause.”

Attached is a screen grab of the Leupold Supports Page from their website and it has
very solid and traditional American Values. I would prefer they would support say FPC
or GOA versus continuing to support the Cult of Wayne.
Link: https://www.leupold.com/partnerships
View attachment 369986

I hear that the real Americans out in Spokane are trying to secede from Oregon and join Idaho.

 

[Steve In Texas]

I hear that the real Americans out in Spokane are trying to secede from Oregon and join Idaho.

Rural Oregon, Rural Washington, and Rural California have been at odds with their state capitols for decades or longer.
The State of Jefferson has long history that Wikipedia gets somewhat correct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)
Even OregonLive gets into the discussion:

Move over Greater Idaho movement, the State of Jefferson is stepping back into secession spotlight

The dream of creating an entirely new state out of large swaths of northern California and southern Oregon has been around for more than 100 years.

www.oregonlive.com

Greater Idaho even gets into the discussion: https://www.redding.com/story/news/...ing-idaho-parts-oregon-california/7213398002/

The delta between many cities and their rural surrounds appears to be growing all over.

 

[pronstar]

Guess my next higher end scope will be a Night Force.
When the $$$ I am spending has a comma in it, I do NOT want diversity. I want the most talented and skilled professionals you have building my product.

Taken to the extreme to make a point…
I liken it to a heart surgeon.

Do I want the best surgeon who graduated at the top of his/her class, or do I want a diversity hire who was held to a lower standard all thru med school?

This thread is why I won’t run Holosuns.
It’s a Chinese company that’s ultimately beholden to the PLA.

But goddammit they’ve got some good optics and are making it difficult to resist LOL

 

[Sasquatch]

Leupold is an odd duck. They make some really damn good scopes, but they step on their dick a lot or just give up on something that has a lot of potential. They'll try something relatively innovative, then dump it before it ever really takes off. Its like a kid starting a YouTube channel, if they don't go viral in a week, they abandon the idea nd move on to the next one, even if the core concept was good and just needed refining to gain wide acceptance.

So they have their hunting scopes and more traditional "tactical" models - but any of their electronic optics or whatnot they'll dump. Shit, they don't even make a Delta Point sight *with the fucking delta reticle* the sight was named after - you can only get it in round dot options with current production.

They should just embrace the damn hunting rifle fudd-market and stick to trying to make those products really damn well. And they need to up their pay, but TBF, they'd probably wind up upping hte price too.

Oregon's minimum wage is tiered - and Leupold sits in the area where they will be paying $14.75 / hr for minimum wage. That's more than double the federal minimum - and $14.75 would be a damn good starting wage for a lot of jobs here in Texas. So if they want to recruit someone who will show up on time, not be baked out of their gord on pot or fucked up by the decriminalized harder drugs, and have some attention to detail, they're probably having to actually pay something closer to $20 / hr for entry level stuff, and adjusting upward for more skilled / more responsible posts.

If they're not, then they're destined to slip even further, because the closer to the minimum they pay people - especially in a Portland suburb, the quality of employee they're going to attract is beyond "sub optimal" so they may as well outsource shit and have some chinese kid with some work ethic and attention to detail put shit together.

Cost of living in Oregon continues to rise, its going down the same path as California has at a rapid rate, thanks to the assholes in Salem. That means anything made in Oregon, or designed in Oregon, is going to go up in price too. Look at computer chips and watch them rise - I lived in Hillsboro - where Intel has 7 (last I knew) facilities - including a few fabs where the Pentium chips are not only designed, but manufactured before they're sent overseas for finish work (cutting the processors out and putting them in the final casing) - the importation of people from throughout the country, as well as from India, China, and other points eastward lead to the spike in cost of living in that area.

Maybe they can pull out of Oregon and move to freer parts of the country where they could pay $14 or $15 / hr and get better employees for that money, but they'll probably stay and just continue to outsource at least their entry level products. THey used to own Redfield - the scope bodies were made in Beaverton, the glass was Japanese, and they were assembled in the US. You could get one of those for $100-150. Not shabby. Then they sold Redfield to Academy (yes, Academy) and IIRC, they're 100% made overseas now.

 

[Axxe55]

lense technology has improved lighy ears in the past twenty years and gotten cheaper so imo there are much better choices in scopes than leaupold

 

[pronstar]

As far as their optics go…it seems like the net-net is that Leupold is resting on the laurels from their past.

 

[Fishkiller]

Try to find an American Made Range finder. All the ones I ever looked at are made in China. The exception is Lieca which is made in Switzerland, I think.

 

[leVieux]

Taken to the extreme to make a point…
I liken it to a heart surgeon.

Do I want the best surgeon who graduated at the top of his/her class, or do I want a diversity hire who was held to a lower standard all thru med school?

This thread is why I won’t run Holosuns.
It’s a Chinese company that’s ultimately beholden to the PLA.

But goddammit they’ve got some good optics and are making it difficult to resist LOL

<>

As a retired Physician / Medical Educator; I understand your logic, but your example is awful.

Those of us long-involved know that those ‘’who graduated at the top of his/her class‘’ rarely make the best practicinbg Doctors, especially when speaking ot Surgeons.

leVieux
.

 

[Hoji]

<>

As a retired Physician / Medical Educator; I understand your logic, but your example is awful.

Those of us long-involved know that those ‘’who graduated at the top of his/her class‘’ rarely make the best practicinbg Doctors, especially when speaking ot Surgeons.

leVieux
.

Still probably better than someone who graduated from a community med school in Ghana at the bottom of their class and are high on khat 24/7. ( this would be the doctor that did my last physical in Saudi Arabia)

 

[pronstar]

<>

As a retired Physician / Medical Educator; I understand your logic, but your example is awful.

Those of us long-involved know that those ‘’who graduated at the top of his/her class‘’ rarely make the best practicinbg Doctors, especially when speaking ot Surgeons.

leVieux
.

I’m a master at providing bad examples LOL

How about an airline pilot who was held to a lower standard in flight school? :-)

 

[benenglish]

<>

As a retired Physician / Medical Educator; I understand your logic, but your example is awful.

Those of us long-involved know that those ‘’who graduated at the top of his/her class‘’ rarely make the best practicinbg Doctors, especially when speaking ot Surgeons.

leVieux
.

Denton Cooley performed my sister's multiple bypass and mitral valve replacement surgery. She was one of the last patients where he personally did the work.

Sis is a pretty overpowering personality (Well, she was when she was healthy.) and she browbeat him into giving her life expectancy numbers. Ultimately, he said he expected her to live for 3 to 5 more years.

That was 24 years ago.

Cooley was a great cutter but garbage at dealing with many aspects of his business. Fortunately, he was smart enough to surround himself with the best medical office staff I've ever encountered. His personal assistant, except for the fact that the fictional character is much older, could have been the basis for Pepper Potts.

That said, I've long since accepted that there's a complete disconnect between fame, academic achievement, and competence.

 

[Sam Colt]

I. also, have a number of strongly-held and inflammatory opinions based on erroneous information, hearsay, and Internet tropes.

 

[pfflyer55]

So Leupold is an offender of American values but still makes all their named brand scopes in America. I beg to differ, name an all American made scope in the sub $1000.00 price tag and I’ll consider it. It’s kind of shameful to say on one hand that Leupold is a bad company then say Vortex is a company that (in other words), instills American values when their whole line is made in either China or Japan where they are guilty of atrocities against their own citizens. Sorry to put it that way but that’s the truth. “BUY AMERICAN” !

Anybody ever read about the 2012-2015 mandate that the FTC outlawed the term Made in the USA if it had any parts or material sourced outside the USA? Many products we see on the shelf have semiconductors made in Taiwan or wood that’s exclusive to Africa or South America. So there’s nothing to fuss about if a tiny piece is sourced overseas.
Leupold is still a good American company!

 

[Sasquatch]

I’m a master at providing bad examples LOL

How about an airline pilot who was held to a lower standard in flight school? :-)

Honestly, I don't give a damn how he handles the plane in the air - its how they stick the landing. Pretty much nothing else matters.

"Unexpected landing" aka crash? Fail

Bumpy landing, but the plane and passengers are (mostly) undamaged? Not my first choice, but I'll take it.

Smoother than freshly polished marble given a coat of mineral oil? Golden.

So long as the plane makes it to the air, and stays there until the proper, scheduled time - its all good so long as they stick the (proper) landing.

 

[pfflyer55]

Leupold is an odd duck. They make some really damn good scopes, but they step on their dick a lot or just give up on something that has a lot of potential. They'll try something relatively innovative, then dump it before it ever really takes off. Its like a kid starting a YouTube channel, if they don't go viral in a week, they abandon the idea nd move on to the next one, even if the core concept was good and just needed refining to gain wide acceptance.

So they have their hunting scopes and more traditional "tactical" models - but any of their electronic optics or whatnot they'll dump. Shit, they don't even make a Delta Point sight *with the fucking delta reticle* the sight was named after - you can only get it in round dot options with current production.

They should just embrace the damn hunting rifle fudd-market and stick to trying to make those products really damn well. And they need to up their pay, but TBF, they'd probably wind up upping hte price too.

Oregon's minimum wage is tiered - and Leupold sits in the area where they will be paying $14.75 / hr for minimum wage. That's more than double the federal minimum - and $14.75 would be a damn good starting wage for a lot of jobs here in Texas. So if they want to recruit someone who will show up on time, not be baked out of their gord on pot or fucked up by the decriminalized harder drugs, and have some attention to detail, they're probably having to actually pay something closer to $20 / hr for entry level stuff, and adjusting upward for more skilled / more responsible posts.

If they're not, then they're destined to slip even further, because the closer to the minimum they pay people - especially in a Portland suburb, the quality of employee they're going to attract is beyond "sub optimal" so they may as well outsource shit and have some chinese kid with some work ethic and attention to detail put shit together.

Cost of living in Oregon continues to rise, its going down the same path as California has at a rapid rate, thanks to the assholes in Salem. That means anything made in Oregon, or designed in Oregon, is going to go up in price too. Look at computer chips and watch them rise - I lived in Hillsboro - where Intel has 7 (last I knew) facilities - including a few fabs where the Pentium chips are not only designed, but manufactured before they're sent overseas for finish work (cutting the processors out and putting them in the final casing) - the importation of people from throughout the country, as well as from India, China, and other points eastward lead to the spike in cost of living in that area.

Maybe they can pull out of Oregon and move to freer parts of the country where they could pay $14 or $15 / hr and get better employees for that money, but they'll probably stay and just continue to outsource at least their entry level products. THey used to own Redfield - the scope bodies were made in Beaverton, the glass was Japanese, and they were assembled in the US. You could get one of those for $100-150. Not shabby. Then they sold Redfield to Academy (yes, Academy) and IIRC, they're 100% made overseas now.

Look, all in all a US company that still makes products in USA is a Damn sight better than any Chinese Kid with work ethic, (there is no work ethic in a communist country, it's forced labor or die.) and with that being said it's better that a company that pays citizens $15.00 an hour that supports Americans and makes great products "Here" than supporting a country that kills their own at will. That makes made in the USA worth fighting for.

If we boycott Leupold and profit all the other MFG's that sell out to China then we are the problem not Leupold "PERIOD"

 

[Sasquatch]

Look, all in all a US company that still makes products in USA is a Damn sight better than any Chinese Kid with work ethic, (there is no work ethic in a communist country, it's forced labor or die.) and with that being said it's better that a company that pays citizens $15.00 an hour that supports Americans and makes great products "Here" than supporting a country that kills their own at will. That makes made in the USA worth fighting for.

If we boycott Leupold and profit all the other MFG's that sell out to China then we are the problem not Leupold "PERIOD"

Where did I say Leupold should be boycotted? Pretty sure I didn't. I pointed out Leupold's weird issues with ditching good products, and the reason their scopes are so damned expensive. Leupold is in communist Oregon - their factory / HQ was actually 10 minutes from where I lived before moving to Texas. I had friends who work / worked there.

Leupold being unwilling to relocate from Beaverton, Oregon is a reason that their scopes will continue to climb in price. $15 in the part of Oregon where they are located is 25 cents above the minimum wage - which means they're going to get minimum-wage quality workers for the roles in which they're paying that rate. If they want *good* workers, they're going to be over $20 / hr, for a similar quality of worker they could get in other states for $14-15 / hr.

Leupold's leadership seems to want to innovate, but not stand behind any of their innovative products. That's a leadership issue. Could change, we'll see. Their track record in the last 20 years isn't great though - which is why I said that they should just pull out of the tactical sight market and focus on what they continue to come back to anyway - which is hunting scopes. Refocusing on those, and dropping tactical product lines could allow them to streamline the process, reducing costs, and remaining competitive in the fields in which they excel.

They should likewise pull out of anti-gun, anti-business Oregon and relocate to a more business friendly state, and gun friendly state. Oregon's tax structure is confiscatory for both businesses and individuals, and they hate guns and gun owners. Colt moved their custom shop out of Oregon. Other makers have done similar. Leupold, if they wanted to stay in the northwest, could move to Idaho or Montana. Much friendlier states for businesses and guns. Or our own state could court them and try to get them to relocate here. Probably won't happen though.

As for the American work ethic - I have to laugh at that one. Good workers are getting damned hard to find in any industry, and the new kids entering the work force think they're entitled to $30 / hr right off the bat, but want to give you $5 / hr performance. Look at all the places that still have signs up about being short staffed, remnants from the COVIDiocy. McDonalds in Magnolia is paying $15 / hr to most employees trying to get people to apply, but they won't.

My own employer is having issues recruiting - with starting pay at $15 + benefits, even for part timers so long as the part timers make 32 hrs / pay period, with reduced benes available for part timers working less hours. Its not just our facility either - we had to send one of our people to another hospital on Sunday, when we were already short staffed because *none* of their security staff came to work on one shift. That's some good work ethic for sure...

The Chinese use *some* forced labor, but don't pretend that all their labor is slave labor. They don't have the same workers rights laws we do, nor nearly the regulations we do, but they're not all slaves, and unlike most Americans, the chinese kids making shit are glad to be earning money to live.

 

[pfflyer55]

Where did I say Leupold should be boycotted? Pretty sure I didn't. I pointed out Leupold's weird issues with ditching good products, and the reason their scopes are so damned expensive. Leupold is in communist Oregon - their factory / HQ was actually 10 minutes from where I lived before moving to Texas. I had friends who work / worked there.

Leupold being unwilling to relocate from Beaverton, Oregon is a reason that their scopes will continue to climb in price. $15 in the part of Oregon where they are located is 25 cents above the minimum wage - which means they're going to get minimum-wage quality workers for the roles in which they're paying that rate. If they want *good* workers, they're going to be over $20 / hr, for a similar quality of worker they could get in other states for $14-15 / hr.

Leupold's leadership seems to want to innovate, but not stand behind any of their innovative products. That's a leadership issue. Could change, we'll see. Their track record in the last 20 years isn't great though - which is why I said that they should just pull out of the tactical sight market and focus on what they continue to come back to anyway - which is hunting scopes. Refocusing on those, and dropping tactical product lines could allow them to streamline the process, reducing costs, and remaining competitive in the fields in which they excel.

They should likewise pull out of anti-gun, anti-business Oregon and relocate to a more business friendly state, and gun friendly state. Oregon's tax structure is confiscatory for both businesses and individuals, and they hate guns and gun owners. Colt moved their custom shop out of Oregon. Other makers have done similar. Leupold, if they wanted to stay in the northwest, could move to Idaho or Montana. Much friendlier states for businesses and guns. Or our own state could court them and try to get them to relocate here. Probably won't happen though.

As for the American work ethic - I have to laugh at that one. Good workers are getting damned hard to find in any industry, and the new kids entering the work force think they're entitled to $30 / hr right off the bat, but want to give you $5 / hr performance. Look at all the places that still have signs up about being short staffed, remnants from the COVIDiocy. McDonalds in Magnolia is paying $15 / hr to most employees trying to get people to apply, but they won't.

My own employer is having issues recruiting - with starting pay at $15 + benefits, even for part timers so long as the part timers make 32 hrs / pay period, with reduced benes available for part timers working less hours. Its not just our facility either - we had to send one of our people to another hospital on Sunday, when we were already short staffed because *none* of their security staff came to work on one shift. That's some good work ethic for sure...

The Chinese use *some* forced labor, but don't pretend that all their labor is slave labor. They don't have the same workers rights laws we do, nor nearly the regulations we do, but they're not all slaves, and unlike most Americans, the chinese kids making shit are glad to be earning money to live.

I stand corrected! You didn’t say boycott, but in other words suggested through venting your frustration on their business practices and the liberal minded state they are located in and you tell a story of leftist strategy and is quite compelling. With that being said, I stand on a simple assessment that better a product be made in USA even if made in Oregon than a product made in communist China. There are many employees at Leupold who rely on their job to support a family that deserve every penny they work for. If they don’t like their pay but want to work in the industry then find another mfg to employ them. That simple. Fact is they make a very good product and I’ll buy American and pay the extra $$ to take a stand for the values that made in USA still stands for something good. I will always go the extra mile to research till I exhaust all my options before I buy China. Sorry for putting words in your mouth. Keep up the effort to bring facts to the forefront. Peace

 

[Axxe55]

I stand corrected! You didn’t say boycott, but in other words suggested through venting your frustration on their business practices and the liberal minded state they are located in and you tell a story of leftist strategy and is quite compelling. With that being said, I stand on a simple assessment that better a product be made in USA even if made in Oregon than a product made in communist China. There are many employees at Leupold who rely on their job to support a family that deserve every penny they work for. If they don’t like their pay but want to work in the industry then find another mfg to employ them. That simple. Fact is they make a very good product and I’ll buy American and pay the extra $$ to take a stand for the values that made in USA still stands for something good. I will always go the extra mile to research till I exhaust all my options before I buy China. Sorry for putting words in your mouth. Keep up the effort to bring facts to the forefront. Peace

ISUSPECT THAT MOWITH MANY PEOPLE HAVING TO STRECTCH THEIR MONEY FROM PAYCHECK TO PAPAYCHECK THAT VALUE IS MORE IMPORTANNT THAN WHERE THE PRODUCT WAS MADE OR ASSEMBLED!

 

[A1Oni]

Leupold scrubbed the words "America" and "American" from their official core values over the summer and added the phrase "Celebrating our diverse workforce." They coincidentally laid off about a third of their Beaverton, Oregon workforce while making record profits selling to the US government to send to Ukraine.

An old friend of mine brought it up at their last all-employee meeting only to get chewed out by his boss's boss later that day. He was laid off a month later. Fortunately, he got hired on a Benchmade shortly after for $10 more an hour.

It sounds like CEO Bruce Pettet is making moves to gut the Beaverton staff while pretending that foreign outsourcing is a virtue in the name of diversity. When I worked near there in the early 2000s, Leupold already had a reputation for below-average wages. Pretty disappointing nevertheless.

my dude, its a scope company not the town council.

 

[studenygreg]

I don't understand the point of this thread. If you don't like Leupold, don't buy their products. Why do so many people are what others do with their money. Or are we just here to bitch just to bitch.

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