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M1 Garand Safe Ammo/ Adj Gas Plugs?

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  • zackmars

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    That makes sense! I suppose there are enough spares that in the worst case it should be easy enough to get replacement parts. Do you recommend I just replace these outright before firing? I feel that even if I relube a potential burr could be disastrous.
    If a part is broken or worn, or has a flaw, absolutely replace it.

    But make sure you inspect and relube first.

    Parts can be sourced from fulton armory or ebay as a last resort
    Lynx Defense
     

    TH4DDEUS

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    If a part is broken or worn, or has a flaw, absolutely replace it.

    But make sure you inspect and relube first.

    Parts can be sourced from fulton armory or ebay as a last resort
    Yes I have dealt with Fulton before so they are a known quantity. Figuring out where the hang-up is will be an unknown, but I am happy to put some elbow grease into it and figure this thing out for the glorious pings!
     
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    Well I installed the Schuster adjustable gas plug and it works.


    Theres some YouTube videos on how to do it. I love mine and it’s peace of mind. Realize that if you don’t do it, there’s nobody on the forums here that’s going to replace your M1A for free if it goes (((ka-clank))) with a bent op rod.
     
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    zackmars

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    Well I installed the Schuster adjustable gas plug and it works.


    Theres some YouTube videos on how to do it. I love mine and it’s peace of mind. Realize that if you don’t do it, there’s nobody on the forums here that’s going to replace your M1A for free if it goes (((ka-clank))) with a bent op rod.
    Well, if your M1 bends the op rod on your M1A, you've got bigger problems. Even IF you manage to bend an op rod, it's just an op rod. They might not be growing on trees but replacements are easy to source.


    John Garand and Julian Hatcher loaded an M1 up to 125,000 psi and didn't bend the op rod. Proper lubrication and new springs are key.
     
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    Well, if your M1 bends the op rod on your M1A, you've got bigger problems. Even IF you manage to bend an op rod, it's just an op rod. They might not be growing on trees but replacements are easy to source.


    John Garand and Julian Hatcher loaded an M1 up to 125,000 psi and didn't bend the op rod. Proper lubrication and new springs are key.
    Ha, I meant M1 Garand. Total Brain fade on my part. I own three Garands and three M1-A variants.

    …and that’s great that John Garand didn’t bend his M1’s op rod on the one sacrificial test rifle. Was it a brand spanking new rifle, right off of his assembly line??? That’s like a brand new car which has greater performance and reliability before high cyclic fatigue propagation (aka: wear n tear) sets in. There‘s plenty of cars where owners were dumb enough to push their engines over red line, but still lucky enough that the engines didn’t seize up …yet. It usually depends on the age and condition of the car’s engine. Likewise, firearms sustain wear through shooting them. Everytime one pulls the trigger, a firearm is one step closer to eventually damaging itself before requiring repair. It’s definately not ”strengthening“ itself as a result of shooting It.

    There’s several cases where people have bent their M1 op rods, especially older ones as the rod itself starts to take a beating. Nothing lasts forever, it’s just taking steps to minimize or extend the life-limited part of the rifle. A adjustable gas plug + oil is better than oil alone. Prove me wrong.

    If I bend my op rod, will YOU replace my M1 with another that’s in the same or better condition? Or better yet, can we replicate John Garand’s 125,000psi experiment on your M1, if you’re so confident about the robustness of the metallurgy of the rifle?

    You bring the rifle and I’ll bring the bullets (and beers for after we’re done testing your M1 like Garand himself did it).
     
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    zackmars

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    Ha, I meant M1 Garand. Total Brain fade on my part. I own three Garands and three M1-A variants.

    …and that’s great that John Garand didn’t bend his M1’s op rod on the one sacrificial test rifle. Was it a brand spanking new rifle, right off of his assembly line??? That’s like a brand new car which has greater performance and reliability before high cyclic fatigue propagation (aka: wear n tear) sets in. There‘s plenty of cars where owners were dumb enough to push their engines over red line, but still lucky enough that the engines didn’t seize up …yet. It usually depends on the age and condition of the car’s engine. Likewise, firearms sustain wear through shooting them. Everytime one pulls the trigger, a firearm is one step closer to eventually damaging itself before requiring repair. It’s definately not ”strengthening“ itself as a result of shooting It.

    There’s several cases where people have bent their M1 op rods, especially older ones as the rod itself starts to take a beating. Nothing lasts forever, it’s just taking steps to minimize or extend the life-limited part of the rifle. A adjustable gas plug + oil is better than oil alone. Prove me wrong.

    If I bend my op rod, will YOU replace my M1 with another that’s in the same or better condition? Or better yet, can we replicate John Garand’s 125,000psi experiment on your M1, if you’re so confident about the robustness of the metallurgy of the rifle?

    You bring the rifle and I’ll bring the bullets (and beers for after we’re done testing your M1 like Garand himself did it).
    It was a new rifle, had over 500 rounds shot through it, then had rounds of increasing pressure till they hit 125k, blew a lug, had a smaller secondary crack, and trashed the stock. They replaced the stock and shot another 500 rounds without issue.

    The 125k is a point i am making to help explain that you can't kill an m1 that easy. The whole idea of the op rod being this wet noodle and needing tons of care and attention is false. Pushed by people who don't even know the ammo the Garand was designed for, let alone the difference between PSI and CUP.

    You know why the op rod takes a beating? Because people are shooting guns with old springs, and don't properly lubricate their rifle. If you are using oil, you aren't doing it right, but then you'd be correct in your concern for your op rod i guess. John Garand designed his rifle to be greased. And you can even buy the exact same grease he intended it to be used with to this day: https://a.co/d/cBCKmxM

    I see no need to recreate Garand and Hatchers experiment, but those guys knew a thing or two about M1's, and I'm happy to believe them without trying to blow my stocks apart.

    And no, I'm not going to replace any part of your gun. Because if you damage an M1's op rod (and it didn't come that way from the CMP), it's totally your fault. Either because you didn't replace the 80 year old recoil spring, or didn't lubricate the firearm.

    Most people don't lube their guns, and it's not shooting that kills an M1 fast, it's friction. Same for any gun.
     

    Nicholst55

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    Here's a link to a few YouTube videos on field stripping and cleaning the M1 Garand. You can trust the ones from Brownells, although they're constantly trying to sell you stuff that you may, or may not actually need. A lot of M1s have thrived on a steady diet of 168 grain Sierra (and other brands) HPBT match bullets. Anything 180 grains or under that is NOT 'lite magnum' type ammo should be suitable in your M1. If in doubt, buy the Schuster gas plug and tune it so that the rifle just functions properly with the desired ammo.

    Field Strip M1 Garand
     
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    It was a new rifle, had over 500 rounds shot through it, then had rounds of increasing pressure till they hit 125k, blew a lug, had a smaller secondary crack, and trashed the stock. They replaced the stock and shot another 500 rounds without issue.

    The 125k is a point i am making to help explain that you can't kill an m1 that easy. The whole idea of the op rod being this wet noodle and needing tons of care and attention is false. Pushed by people who don't even know the ammo the Garand was designed for, let alone the difference between PSI and CUP.

    You know why the op rod takes a beating? Because people are shooting guns with old springs, and don't properly lubricate their rifle. If you are using oil, you aren't doing it right, but then you'd be correct in your concern for your op rod i guess. John Garand designed his rifle to be greased. And you can even buy the exact same grease he intended it to be used with to this day: https://a.co/d/cBCKmxM

    I see no need to recreate Garand and Hatchers experiment, but those guys knew a thing or two about M1's, and I'm happy to believe them without trying to blow my stocks apart.

    And no, I'm not going to replace any part of your gun. Because if you damage an M1's op rod (and it didn't come that way from the CMP), it's totally your fault. Either because you didn't replace the 80 year old recoil spring, or didn't lubricate the firearm.

    Most people don't lube their guns, and it's not shooting that kills an M1 fast, it's friction. Same for any gun.
    Well, a mere “500 rounds” and “THEN had rounds of increasing pressure till they hit 125k,…”. So you proved my point. The damage to the gun was a result of cumulative wear -n- tear. Using rounds of increased pressure variances, only accelerates the rate at which a part or component of the gun will fail. Their purpose I suppose was to possibly simulate a rifle that has experienced thousands of rounds through normal use and to see when it’s going to fail.

    It’s like if manufacturers used “proof” rounds in a gun repeatedly, it would only increase and cause stress fractures in the gun’s components, something like a thousand times over for every shot. Most everyone’s M1 Garands today do not shoot proof rounds, but the chances are they’ve cycled thousands upon thousands of rounds through them and that’s what’s caused parts like the op rod to become more susceptible to breakage with age/use. The component finally just “gave up the ghost,” like all man man’s things eventually do.

    So, again I ask, if it’s 100% “my fault” for the gun to break, then put your money where your mouth is and let’s test your theory on YOUR gun.

    An adjustable gas plug definitely doesn’t hurt the gun, but adds another level of protecting the firearm for increased longevity. It reduces needlessly high gas pressures to cycle the rifle’s action.

    Also, why on earth would I want to buy the “exact same grease” with a formula designed in the 30’s or 40’s, when such better technologically performing Synthetics are available today? Do you also use motor oil from 1942 in your cars?
     
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    zackmars

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    Well, a mere “500 rounds” and “THEN had rounds of increasing pressure till they hit 125k,…”. So you proved my point. The damage to the gun was a result of cumulative wear -n- tear. Using rounds of increased pressure variances, only accelerates the rate at which a part or component of the gun will fail. Their purpose I suppose was to possibly simulate a rifle that has experienced thousands of rounds through normal use and to see when it’s going to fail.

    It’s like if manufacturers used “proof” rounds in a gun repeatedly, it would only increase and cause stress fractures in the gun’s components, something like a thousand times over for every shot. Most everyone’s M1 Garands today do not shoot proof rounds, but the chances are they’ve cycled thousands upon thousands of rounds through them and that’s what’s caused parts like the op rod to become more susceptible to breakage with age/use. The component finally just “gave up the ghost,” like all man man’s things eventually do.

    So, again I ask, if it’s 100% “my fault” for the gun to break, then put your money where your mouth is and let’s test your theory on YOUR gun.

    An adjustable gas plug definitely doesn’t hurt the gun, but adds another level of protecting the firearm for increased longevity. It reduces needlessly high gas pressures to cycle the rifle’s action.

    Also, why on earth would I want to buy the “exact same grease” with a formula designed in the 30’s or 40’s, when such better technologically performing Synthetics are available today? Do you also use motor oil from 1942 in your cars?
    "At least 500 rounds". I don't really want to look for my copy of the book to remember the exact round count before they upped pressure

    "due to accumulative wear and tear", once you hit 125k psi, we are well past "accumulative". That is a load that is designed to kill whatever you stick it in. Not to make sure it doesn't blow up (like a proof load) but TO blow it up. It'd be like purposely loading a .300blk into a 5.56. You know what's going to happen

    "Their purpose", that was outlined in the book. They had received no reports of catastrophic* M1 failures despite guns being used in combat, and having many thousands of rounds shot through them. By this point it was 1943 or 44, and the Garand was nearly fully developed. They more than knew what tens of thousands of rounds (M1 ball, M2 ball, M2AP, you name it) would do to a gun. They had known that for years.

    *There were reports of cracked heels and leg breakages due to improper heat treatment, but that was it.

    Test what theory? You seem to be under the impression i am saying that you can just shoot 125k loads willy nilly. I am not. As i said earlier, that is to serve as an example to the idiot fudds that think anything other than M2 ball will bend your op rod. And again, that experiment has already happened. Done by people who are not only smarter than me, but have equipment and unlimited access to M1 rifles and ammo. Why are you so bent out of shape over me bringing up an experiment run by the two most important people involved with the M1?

    An adjustable plug has it's uses, but the M1 is overbuilt enough to where you'd need to be putting several hundred rounds a day through it for a very long time before you see any possible difference in wear. You know how I know that? Because two idiot nobodies put a pissin hot 125k psi round through one :)

    Furthermore, the M1 is not a hard cycling gun. It's very reasonably gassed. The only parts that get worn assuming the rifle is kept greased and properly sprung is the gas cylinder, and the piston/op rod tip, but like I said earlier, you have to run the gun extremely hard to see any actual wear. "Staying below 180" is all the level of protecting"you need to do.

    "why on earth would I want to buy the “exact same grease” with a formula designed in the 30’s or 40’s, when such better technologically performing Synthetics are available today? Do you also use motor oil from 1942 in your cars?"

    well because #1, it's better than the oil you said you were using.

    #2, the Garand needs to be wet, as long as it's grease, it doesn't matter what you use.

    have you used lubriplate? I'm guessing you haven't. Because it actually works fine in guns, just like any other halfway decent grease.

    But yeah you really gotta spend $80 on a 50mL bottle of Navy SEAL cool guy lube to properly lubricate your 70+ year old rifle. Old tech never works the second something new comes around. :(


    I suggest reading Hatchers book of the Garand and Hatchers notebook. You'll learn a lot about the what and why they did things the way they did.
     

    TH4DDEUS

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    "At least 500 rounds". I don't really want to look for my copy of the book to remember the exact round count before they upped pressure

    "due to accumulative wear and tear", once you hit 125k psi, we are well past "accumulative". That is a load that is designed to kill whatever you stick it in. Not to make sure it doesn't blow up (like a proof load) but TO blow it up. It'd be like purposely loading a .300blk into a 5.56. You know what's going to happen

    "Their purpose", that was outlined in the book. They had received no reports of catastrophic* M1 failures despite guns being used in combat, and having many thousands of rounds shot through them. By this point it was 1943 or 44, and the Garand was nearly fully developed. They more than knew what tens of thousands of rounds (M1 ball, M2 ball, M2AP, you name it) would do to a gun. They had known that for years.

    *There were reports of cracked heels and leg breakages due to improper heat treatment, but that was it.

    Test what theory? You seem to be under the impression i am saying that you can just shoot 125k loads willy nilly. I am not. As i said earlier, that is to serve as an example to the idiot fudds that think anything other than M2 ball will bend your op rod. And again, that experiment has already happened. Done by people who are not only smarter than me, but have equipment and unlimited access to M1 rifles and ammo. Why are you so bent out of shape over me bringing up an experiment run by the two most important people involved with the M1?

    An adjustable plug has it's uses, but the M1 is overbuilt enough to where you'd need to be putting several hundred rounds a day through it for a very long time before you see any possible difference in wear. You know how I know that? Because two idiot nobodies put a pissin hot 125k psi round through one :)

    Furthermore, the M1 is not a hard cycling gun. It's very reasonably gassed. The only parts that get worn assuming the rifle is kept greased and properly sprung is the gas cylinder, and the piston/op rod tip, but like I said earlier, you have to run the gun extremely hard to see any actual wear. "Staying below 180" is all the level of protecting"you need to do.

    "why on earth would I want to buy the “exact same grease” with a formula designed in the 30’s or 40’s, when such better technologically performing Synthetics are available today? Do you also use motor oil from 1942 in your cars?"

    well because #1, it's better than the oil you said you were using.

    #2, the Garand needs to be wet, as long as it's grease, it doesn't matter what you use.

    have you used lubriplate? I'm guessing you haven't. Because it actually works fine in guns, just like any other halfway decent grease.

    But yeah you really gotta spend $80 on a 50mL bottle of Navy SEAL cool guy lube to properly lubricate your 70+ year old rifle. Old tech never works the second something new comes around. :(


    I suggest reading Hatchers book of the Garand and Hatchers notebook. You'll learn a lot about the what and why they did things the way they did.
    Was doing some more research and came across this on the M1A

    Long/short of it I may have a bum bolt or receiver. The lubricant helped it for sure,but it still randomly does it. So it definitely seems something is out of spec
     

    zackmars

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    Was doing some more research and came across this on the M1A

    Long/short of it I may have a bum bolt or receiver. The lubricant helped it for sure,but it still randomly does it. So it definitely seems something is out of spec

    How deeply have you cleaned your rifle?

    If it's doing it randomly, check the op rod track on the left side of the receiver, the tab on the op rod itself, and the right lug on the bolt. I'd also check the left lug and the matching track in the receiver for any debris or burrs. Also maybe the firing pin and the OOB safety cutout inside the receiver.
     
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    "At least 500 rounds". I don't really want to look for my copy of the book to remember the exact round count before they upped pressure

    "due to accumulative wear and tear", once you hit 125k psi, we are well past "accumulative". That is a load that is designed to kill whatever you stick it in. Not to make sure it doesn't blow up (like a proof load) but TO blow it up. It'd be like purposely loading a .300blk into a 5.56. You know what's going to happen

    "Their purpose", that was outlined in the book. They had received no reports of catastrophic* M1 failures despite guns being used in combat, and having many thousands of rounds shot through them. By this point it was 1943 or 44, and the Garand was nearly fully developed. They more than knew what tens of thousands of rounds (M1 ball, M2 ball, M2AP, you name it) would do to a gun. They had known that for years.

    *There were reports of cracked heels and leg breakages due to improper heat treatment, but that was it.

    Test what theory? You seem to be under the impression i am saying that you can just shoot 125k loads willy nilly. I am not. As i said earlier, that is to serve as an example to the idiot fudds that think anything other than M2 ball will bend your op rod. And again, that experiment has already happened. Done by people who are not only smarter than me, but have equipment and unlimited access to M1 rifles and ammo. Why are you so bent out of shape over me bringing up an experiment run by the two most important people involved with the M1?

    An adjustable plug has it's uses, but the M1 is overbuilt enough to where you'd need to be putting several hundred rounds a day through it for a very long time before you see any possible difference in wear. You know how I know that? Because two idiot nobodies put a pissin hot 125k psi round through one :)

    Furthermore, the M1 is not a hard cycling gun. It's very reasonably gassed. The only parts that get worn assuming the rifle is kept greased and properly sprung is the gas cylinder, and the piston/op rod tip, but like I said earlier, you have to run the gun extremely hard to see any actual wear. "Staying below 180" is all the level of protecting"you need to do.

    "why on earth would I want to buy the “exact same grease” with a formula designed in the 30’s or 40’s, when such better technologically performing Synthetics are available today? Do you also use motor oil from 1942 in your cars?"

    well because #1, it's better than the oil you said you were using.

    #2, the Garand needs to be wet, as long as it's grease, it doesn't matter what you use.

    have you used lubriplate? I'm guessing you haven't. Because it actually works fine in guns, just like any other halfway decent grease.

    But yeah you really gotta spend $80 on a 50mL bottle of Navy SEAL cool guy lube to properly lubricate your 70+ year old rifle. Old tech never works the second something new comes around. :(


    I suggest reading Hatchers book of the Garand and Hatchers notebook. You'll learn a lot about the what and why they did things the way they did.
    I use regular BreakFree LP (not “CLP”). Costs about $5 bucks.
    As far as using an adjustable gas plug or not, I say you do you Boo. I like using an adjustable gas plug on my M1 Garands and I know that it removes excess pressure and excess “hammering” of the rifle.

    I take it by the silence that you won’t take me up with testing your theory in YOUR M1 Garand.
     

    zackmars

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    I use regular BreakFree LP (not “CLP”). Costs about $5 bucks.
    As far as using an adjustable gas plug or not, I say you do you Boo. I like using an adjustable gas plug on my M1 Garands and I know that it removes excess pressure and excess “hammering” of the rifle.

    I take it by the silence that you won’t take me up with testing your theory in YOUR M1 Garand.
    It's not "my theory", it's an experiment done by the two most important names in the story of the M1

    You are using oil. M1's are not designed to be lubed with oil. They are designed to be lubricated with grease. It's hilarious that you brag about reducing wear and tear on your M1 by using an adjustable gas plug, yet lubricate with oil.


    Go read some of Hatchers work. Then we can talk about the what and why of the M1 like adults, and not trying to play gotcha games because I am talking about something you weren't even aware of before you clicked on this thread.
     
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    It's not "my theory", it's an experiment done by the two most important names in the story of the M1

    You are using oil. M1's are not designed to be lubed with oil. They are designed to be lubricated with grease. It's hilarious that you brag about reducing wear and tear on your M1 by using an adjustable gas plug, yet lubricate with oil.


    Go read some of Hatchers work. Then we can talk about the what and why of the M1 like adults, and not trying to play gotcha games because I am talking about something you weren't even aware of before you clicked on this thread.
    I’ve been using LP for a long time and on heavy machine guns without issue. It works nicely. I also have no interest in a book written probably when Moses chiseled out the 10 commandments on stone. You really should get out more.
    …again, can we test out your theory on YOUR M1 Garand?
     

    zackmars

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    I’ve been using LP for a long time and on heavy machine guns without issue. It works nicely. I also have no interest in a book written probably when Moses chiseled out the 10 commandments on stone. You really should get out more.
    …again, can we test out your theory on YOUR M1 Garand?
    I mush have missed the part where the mythical M1 heavy machine gun was a thing.

    The books may be old, but it was written by the #2 guy behind the M1 garand. I get that you think you are the smartest person in this thread, but the guy who wrote those books forgot more than either of us will ever know.
     
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    I mush have missed the part where the mythical M1 heavy machine gun was a thing.

    The books may be old, but it was written by the #2 guy behind the M1 garand. I get that you think you are the smartest person in this thread, but the guy who wrote those books forgot more than either of us will ever know.
    In other words “oil“ lubricant is fine to use on an M1 Garand.

    “Mush?” …fitting.
     

    zackmars

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    In other words “oil“ lubricant is fine to use on an M1 Garand.

    “Mush?” …fitting.
    No, it's not. Not if you want to ensure you aren't beating your Garand to death. Literally no one with any sizeable experience with M1 recommends oil. No one.

    Mush. Yes, mush. A minor typo. If this is the state of your argument, you really have nothing.

    Do you even own a garand?
     

    PinnedandRecessed

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    1680648653225.png

    1680648672224.png


    Seriously though, GREASE that M1 Garand.
     
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