Mag changes

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • htxred

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 6, 2008
    588
    21
    inner loop houston
    im curious as to how many here actually practice mag changes, rather its out in an open field, infront of a shooter's box, or my personal favorite, at home infront of a mirror...

    Reason i asked is because something i've noticed that is common during mag changes are people drop their head, people try to mag change out way infront of them, and people try to go faster then they should.

    Dropping your head IMO isnt such a great practice because 1 it causes you to take your eyes off the threat, and 2 it causes for the shooter to want to do a "low" mag change. cons of doing a low mag change would be visual impairment in low light situations AND the fact that you then have to take MORE time to look back up and get your sights on the threat.

    simple solution would be for when you press the mag release button, to turn your gun to the side right away so tha tyou can see the opening of the magwell as you're pulling the gun back towards your face. this allows for the front sight to semi stay on target and keeps you from putting your head down verus looking down. this also helps when inserting the new mag since both the mag and magwell are right infront of your face, once you've confirmed the mag IS in the magwell, look back up as you palm slap the mag in and place your sights back on target. all together this method would be less movement, since your not changing the angle of your neck/head, and your gun basically is only coming in and out from your body, verus in and down then back up. then of course the rotation of your wrist. but its easier to keep eyes and sights on the threat IMO...

    but then easier said then done right?

    when you try to do a mag change way out infront of you verus close to your body, the "strong zone" where you're most strong at, it causes you to sometimes lean forward and you dont have the amount of strength you would have if you brought the gun into the strong zone. bend your elbows and bring the gun into your face as you're doing the mag change. i really dont know what key points to point out that would back up my suggestion but visually, its understood why one would be superior to the other, tactically.

    Going faster then you should causes all kinds of mishaps that just slow you down in the long run. if it takes you x amount of time to fire off 2 shots, mag change, then 2 more shots, you shouldnt be trying to go faster unless you can successfully do that 10 times or maybe even more. trying to finish faster leaves more time for error. easier said then done though right??

    i could totally be off on what i've said, but its just something that i wanted to share since most have "seen" good mag changes, but dont understand what makes them good.
     

    DoubleActionCHL

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 23, 2008
    1,572
    21
    Spring, Texas
    While I am certainly no expert, I learned and practice the following:

    First, always keep the muzzle pointed at the attacker, whether you're reloading, clearing a malfunction, etc. Pull the weapon into your chest (shooting or strong hand side) into a Compressed Contact position. If you're speed reloading, drop your magazine and rotate the weapon clockwise a little less than 90 degrees.

    Grasp your fresh mag from your support (weak) side with the butt of the magazine resting on the heel of your hand and index finger running down the face of the mag. If you fingers are long enough, the tip of your index finger should be touching the tip of the first round.

    Tilt the magazine so the rear of the tip inserts into the mag well; you should be able to feel the correct positioning with your index finger. Rock the magazine forward so its in proper alignment, open your hand and slam it in.

    Charge the weapon by grasping over the top rear of the slide. Don't pinch the rear. Push with your shooting hand, pull with your support hand. This should be one fluid motion that transitions you back into your tactical shooting stance to re-engage your attacker.

    With just a little practice, you can do this without looking at your weapon.
     

    Pony

    Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 17, 2008
    98
    1
    Azle, TX
    I practice tactical and emergency reloads. I always drop the mag in emergency, and strip to a pocket in tactical. I try to ingrain muscle memory so it becomes reflexive. Regardless as to the method I always keep my muzzle pointed on target. An empty magazine is useless, so why fumble to retain it - strip it to the ground. I would never want an empty magazine on me, ever. The loudest sound in a gun fight would surely be 'click' instead of 'bang' :eek:

    I always check for my spare mag before stripping the empty magazine (a quick tap with my elbow to confirm it is present). I think the only thing worse than running your gun dry is to run it dry and let your opponent know its condition. You can seek cover and hope your opponent decides to take the opportunity to make an escape if they do not know you are all out of ammo. Stripping a magazine and discovering you have nothing to insert is a clear indication you are all out of luck; if my wife is going to collect my body, I'd rather not be remembered as the guy who poo-ed himself right before he was shot LOL.

    So how many people actually drop magazines?
     

    DoubleActionCHL

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 23, 2008
    1,572
    21
    Spring, Texas
    I agree that there's no good reason to retain an empty mag during a gun fight, and we should train for real-life. I practice dropping my empty most often. I should probably practice tactical (reloading with retention) more often, but I honestly don't see myself getting into an extended gun battle where this will be an issue (famous last words?).

    By this logic, however, I'd have to concede to those who say "I can't see ever needing to carry a gun."

    I guess I'd better start practicing those tactical reloads. :D
     

    Texas1911

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    May 29, 2017
    10,596
    46
    Austin, TX
    Watched a video that covered this. It went to a story about the revolver days of police work and that they always would collect the brass on the reload and put it in their pocket. When the same officers were engaged in a gun fight a number of police were found dead with brass in their pockets. Under stress they had taken the time to place it in their pocket since that is how they trained. That 2 seconds could have been the difference between life and death for the officers.

    It drives home a very valid point to train as you fight.

    I know in baseball if you developed bad habits and sloppy mental focus during practice you were equally likely to do the same in a game. I'm sure this applies in greater detail to high stress situations.

    One must train as megaforce, and be megaforce.
     

    SIG_Fiend

    TGT Addict
    TGT Supporter
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 21, 2008
    7,233
    66
    Austin, TX
    I practice mag changes quite a bit, but then I shoot a gun with a euro-style mag release.


    Just curious but, what gun is that? I just bought a euro Sig P220 9mm, and it has a heel release as well. I was thinking of swapping the slide and locking block over to my 45acp P220 and vise versa so that I have a 9mm with a button release. The more I think about it though, the more I don't think heel releases are that big a deal. I mean, I've personally never had a problem with them. For a carry gun, I would actually prefer a heel release as it's just added insurance and I'd like the peace of mind that comes from knowing you could never possibly bump into something and the mag come falling out. ;)
     

    JAFO

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 10, 2008
    16
    1
    S. A., TX
    I learned to reload from a class I took with Bruce Gray. There is a video of his technique here:

    http://www.downrange.tv/videoinfo/brucegray.htm

    (Click on the Speed Reload video)

    As I shoot USPSA and not IDPA, I never retain the mags. I do sometimes bring the gun in too low and find myself looking down. I do practice reloads at home and so I should start paying attention to that. I stand over the back of the couch so the mags don't fall on the nice, hard tile floor. I also practiced tap/rack drills and double feed clearance drills once in a while.
     

    JAFO

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 10, 2008
    16
    1
    S. A., TX
    For a carry gun, I would actually prefer a heel release as it's just added insurance and I'd like the peace of mind that comes from knowing you could never possibly bump into something and the mag come falling out. ;)

    I would actually think that there would be more chance of accidentally popping your mag loose with a heel release, especially if riding in a vehicle. Most of the holsters out there these days cover the mag release (unless you're setup for a strong-side mag release).
     

    SIG_Fiend

    TGT Addict
    TGT Supporter
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 21, 2008
    7,233
    66
    Austin, TX
    I would actually think that there would be more chance of accidentally popping your mag loose with a heel release, especially if riding in a vehicle. Most of the holsters out there these days cover the mag release (unless you're setup for a strong-side mag release).

    ??? I guess I can't really visualize how that would be possible. It's been my experience with the handful of heel release guns I've handled and owned that it requires more force to pull the release than is probably going to be caused by accidentally bumping into something. Also, it's such a small area that needs to be pulled/pushed in a very specific manner to let the mag drop free. I just don't see it happening. With button releases, and depending on the holster, accidentally bumping into a wall could sometimes be just enough to trip the button and drop the mag.
     

    JAFO

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 10, 2008
    16
    1
    S. A., TX
    Maybe I'm thinking of a different type of release. I have a Browning .22 with a mag release on the heel that's a bit exposed, but the mag is spring-loaded into the magwell. If I bump the release, the mag pops out. It won't fall out, but I'll only get one shot.
     

    SIG_Fiend

    TGT Addict
    TGT Supporter
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 21, 2008
    7,233
    66
    Austin, TX
    All of the heel release guns I've used require a deliberate amount of force straight to the rear to release the mag. The guns I've used/handled with a heel release are the Sig 230/232, HK P9S, P7, and I believe one or two others I can't think of at the moment. At least on those that I've shot, an accidental bump wouldn't be enough to release the mag, unless of course it was directly on the mag release and in a rearward direction. While carrying, that's an odd enough angle that I can't imagine something like that happening. Anything is definitely possible though.
     

    fm2

    Event Coordinator
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 27, 2008
    593
    21
    I practice reload with retention no matter if it's from slidelock or tactical reload. Many times I'll incorporate a side step or level change.
     

    T3hk1w1

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 27, 2008
    31
    1
    Just curious but, what gun is that? I just bought a euro Sig P220 9mm, and it has a heel release as well. I was thinking of swapping the slide and locking block over to my 45acp P220 and vise versa so that I have a 9mm with a button release. The more I think about it though, the more I don't think heel releases are that big a deal. I mean, I've personally never had a problem with them. For a carry gun, I would actually prefer a heel release as it's just added insurance and I'd like the peace of mind that comes from knowing you could never possibly bump into something and the mag come falling out. ;)

    Mostly a Makarov PM, but also a Walther P1.
     

    jasont

    Active Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2008
    344
    11
    Houston
    I practice magazine changes 4-5 nights a week dryfiring at home and every time I live fire. I shoot mainly USPSA production and some IDPA.

    I cant the gun very slightly, just enough to put the grip of my pistol in line with my weak side hip so the weak hand can bring the magazine straight from the pouch into the gun. Keeping the gun vertical or tilting it enough to see into the magwell means you will have to add an extra bit of motion in your weak hand wrist to line up the magazine with the magwell. For me this is more awkward, prone to error, and slower. As my weak hand is coming back towards the gun with the magazine my eyes glance at where the magwell is, but I do not move my head. The gun is still right in front of my face so I do not need to move my head to see it. My shooting stance has my elbows bent with the gun fairly close to me already which helps in making faster reloads as well as quicker target transitions. I do not bring the gun any closer to me when I do my reloads. The instant the magazine has started to enter the magwell my eyes move to the next target and I cant the gun back vertical. I seat the magazine and my weak hand slides back into place on the grip in one motion.
     
    Top Bottom