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  • easy rider

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    And here I thought these were Damn Yankees:

    EKDHVs3pg9U
    Lynx Defense
     

    phoenix

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    I feel the need to correct a misunderstanding. A Yankee is one who come to Texas from wherever that qualified him to be a Yankee and then returns home. A Damnyankee is one who come to Texas and STAYS.

    PS: I married one.

    I married one as well. She says a "damned yankee" is one who won't assimilate. She has fully embraced dixie.
     

    Ole Cowboy

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    Ole Cowboy,

    NOPE. - After President Trump comes 8 years of President Pence. = UNTIL/UNLESS the MORON LEFT is purged from the DIMocRAT Party, they are FINISHED as a party that can win the WH and/or control of Congress.
    TRUTH is that the DP of 2018 has NOBODY that can beat Trump or Pence.

    yours, satx
    Bro, hope you are 100% correct!
     

    diesel1959

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    baboon,

    INTERESTING.

    Have you read: TO DIE IN CHICAGO: Confederate Prisoners at Camp Douglas, 1862-65 by Professor George Levy??
    (That book AND the equally illuminating book DACHAU IN AMERICA: Collected Documents & Letters from Point Lookout POW Camp 1862-65 by Dr. Raymond Wills will tell any thinking person about how CRUEL & RUTHLESS that the Radical Unionists were during TWBTS & why those of us whose family members suffered & died at those 2 DY HELLHOLES will neither forgive nor forget what was done to the thousands of helpless victims.)

    Note: Our family had 4 members murdered in coldblood at Point Lookout & one soldier-boy beaten to death with rifle butts at Camp Douglas.

    yours, satx
    . . . and Andersonville and Belle Isle were vacation paradises. :rolleyes:
     

    satx78247

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    diesel1959,

    Andersonville & Belle Isle WERE paradises when compared to Point Lookout & Camp Douglas, as the DY hellholes were, "out of the mouths of the Union Army officers" that managed the concentration camps, intended to CAUSE POWs DEATH on a wholesale basis.
    (Even a the worst CSA prison pen, the death rate was LESS than 5% of that per 1,000 POWs at Point Lookout DEATH CAMP.)

    Btw, the official US Army report on Andersonville says that after extensive investigation that there were NO intentional inflictions of murder, torture, denial of medical care or any other INTENTIONAL war crimes.
    The USA's report says that the sickness & death at Andersonville was caused by a lack of understanding of treating "filth diseases", everyone drinking impure water & the simple fact that there was insufficient food for both the Union prisoners & the CSA guard force.
    (GUARDS at Andersonville starved at the same rate as Union POWs did there.)

    That's WHY you should read the 2 books that I referenced . = TO DIE IN CHICAGO will turn most decent people's stomachs.

    You may also want to read: PORTALS TO HELL: MILITARY PRISONS OF THE CIVIL WAR by Professor Lonnie R. Speer.

    yours, satx
     
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    diesel1959

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    There were no picnics in POW camps--North or South. It sucked, was brutal, and soldiers were treated like garbage. But there was no Geneva Convention protecting folks in those days. Furthermore, it was not without the realm of reasoned thought for the North to view combatants from the CSA as traitors, in that the Union always viewed ALL the States as still part of the United States and that under the very words of the Constitution (Art. III., Sec. 3), those CSA troops were de jure and de facto committing ongoing treason from the very beginning of the war to the end.

    By your own admission, your own nerves over the War are still frayed and raw even to this day--some 150 years after-the-fact, so imagine how raw and frayed the nerves of folks in the moment--both in the North and in the South. YOU and I can't even imagine, but it is certain that many in the North viewed the Southern combatants as traitors deserving death on the battlefield or hanging/firing squad/etc. once captured. The North could view the CSA combatants as traitors but the South could NOT view the Union combatants as traitors.

    Just food for thought.
     
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    satx78247

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    diesel1959,

    So you think that TORTURE, beating POWs to death with rifle butts, starving POWs to death, intentionally denying necessary medical care & murdering them for NOT being "properly deferential to the Union officers" is "understandable", if NOT OK??

    I find it more than a little interesting that the US Veterans Corps (AKA: The US Army Invalids Corps) members were first tried as guards at Point Lookout & Camp Douglas by the Yankee High Command.
    (Disabled veterans were quickly replaced as guards, because they weren't cruel to the CSA POWs.)

    Then the Union tried using escaped slaves, as they believed that escaped slaves would abuse Southerners.
    (Where the US Veteran's Corps were "just doing a job" & weren't generally cruel, the escaped slaves actually FED & took good care of the sick POWs, so they were replaced after about 120 days.)

    Finally the Union commanders came up with a group of guards who would be as cruel as the High Command wanted: Former military prisoners, who were serving long sentences in US military prisons for rape, robbery, assaulting NCOs/officers, desertion, etc.
    In return, the military prisoners were told that they would be released & their records cleared IF they were sufficiently cruel to the CS POWs.
    Otoh, IF they were found to be insufficiently cruel to the POWs, they would be returned to their previous prisons to finish their sentences.

    The USA's own records indicate that the vast majority of war crimes against CSA POWs were committed by the prisoner-guards in the last 11-15 months that the concentration camps were open. - The prison's official records indicate that MANY prisoner-guards were actually rewarded with extra cash, for their cruel/unlawful behaviors.

    So, SORRY, your explanation is a leaky boat that sinks of its own weight.

    yours, tex
     
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    diesel1959

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    No, it's not ok. But horrible brutality was present at the camps I mentioned too. This is not a battle of equivalence, sir. You, somewhat understandably (given your family history), only focus on the brutality of the one side but seem to be unwilling to view that brutality existed on both sides. I don't condone anything that happened to your forbears and other CSA soldiers at their prisons; however, for you to not recognize that there was brutality aplenty at Andersonville and Belle Isle is simply amazing--regardless of what the "official" US Army report states. Captain Henry Wirz (the Commandant of Andersonville) was even executed as a war criminal after the war. That wasn't done for "no reason". There is very little good to say about the Civil War, and that's a fact.
     

    easy rider

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    I believe that horrible things happen in all wars. While certainly people shouldn't forget the atrocities of war, still after time it shouldn't be held against those that had no part in it.

    I believe there are bad things happening in our own time that are of more immediate concern.
     

    satx78247

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    No, it's not ok. But horrible brutality was present at the camps I mentioned too. This is not a battle of equivalence, sir. You, somewhat understandably (given your family history), only focus on the brutality of the one side but seem to be unwilling to view that brutality existed on both sides. I don't condone anything that happened to your forbears and other CSA soldiers at their prisons; however, for you to not recognize that there was brutality aplenty at Andersonville and Belle Isle is simply amazing--regardless of what the "official" US Army report states. Captain Henry Wirz (the Commandant of Andersonville) was even executed as a war criminal after the war. That wasn't done for "no reason". There is very little good to say about the Civil War, and that's a fact.

    diesel1959,

    It just so happens that I'm a family friend of Brigadier General Heinrich Wirz (SZ Army Retired), the great-grand nephew of MAJ Wurtz.= GEN Wirz has been our houseguest numerous times when he visited the USA on The Wirz Family Foundation business.
    (Btw, at one point in 2009, we had all six of the senior flag officers of the SZ Army as houseguests at one time. = It was "fairly close quarters" at our house that week, as we only had a 4BR house, for my lady, myself, our daughter & 6 SZ officers. Nonetheless, a good time was had by all.).

    Fyi, the official records of a session of The USA Board for the Correction of Military Records, sitting at St Louis, MO cleared MAJ Wurtz of ANY criminal behavior at Andersonville.The report, which was under the jurisdiction of & endorsed by a US Military Judge (Brigadier General, USA) found that, "Maj Henry Wurtz, MD was convicted of crimes, by a court of no lawful jurisdiction, which he could not have committed as he was far away & hospitalized with a severely wounded arm at the time of the claimed crimes, upon knowingly perjured evidence & was therefore convicted & executed unlawfully by the Army. He therefore is exonerated of any criminal behavior at Andersonville Military Prison & his service record is hereby cleared of that conviction & of any dishonorable behavior."

    It's a good thing to know the truth of what one mentions on the WWW, as you never know who you are talking to.


    yours, satx
     

    diesel1959

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    diesel1959,

    It just so happens that I'm a family friend of Brigadier General Heinrich Wirz (SZ Army Retired), the great-grand nephew of MAJ Wurtz.= GEN Wirz has been our houseguest numerous times when he visited the USA on The Wirz Family Foundation business.
    (Btw, at one point in 2009, we had all six of the senior flag officers of the SZ Army as houseguests at one time. = It was "fairly close quarters" at our house that week, as we only had a 4BR house, for my lady, myself, our daughter & 6 SZ officers. Nonetheless, a good time was had by all.).

    Fyi, the official records of a session of The USA Board for the Correction of Military Records, sitting at St Louis, MO cleared MAJ Wurtz of ANY criminal behavior at Andersonville.The report, which was under the jurisdiction of & endorsed by a US Military Judge (Brigadier General, USA) found that, "Maj Henry Wurtz, MD was convicted of crimes, by a court of no lawful jurisdiction, which he could not have committed as he was far away & hospitalized with a severely wounded arm at the time of the claimed crimes, upon knowingly perjured evidence & was therefore convicted & executed unlawfully by the Army. He therefore is exonerated of any criminal behavior at Andersonville Military Prison & his service record is hereby cleared of that conviction & of any dishonorable behavior."

    It's a good thing to know the truth of what one mentions on the WWW, as you never know who you are talking to.


    yours, satx
    As you well know--a commanding officer is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens aboard their command . . . even if they're not there. I'm aware of the correction of the record; however, he WAS executed. That much is a fact. It's not for me, or even you to say whether it was deserved or not. You've mentioned the family connections with the Wirz's previously here on TGT, but I expect you'll do so again, as you love to name-drop and reminisce. For a fact, Captain Wirz was only recommended for promotion to major and was never actually promoted to that rank. The name he served under and was executed under was "Wirz" and not "Wurtz". :cheers:
     

    satx78247

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    As you well know--a commanding officer is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens aboard their command . . . even if they're not there. I'm aware of the correction of the record; however, he WAS executed. That much is a fact. It's not for me, or even you to say whether it was deserved or not. You've mentioned the family connections with the Wirz's previously here on TGT, but I expect you'll do so again, as you love to name-drop and reminisce. For a fact, Captain Wirz was only recommended for promotion to major and was never actually promoted to that rank. The name he served under and was executed under was "Wirz" and not "Wurtz". :cheers:

    diesel1959,

    MAJ Wurtz was NEVER appointed as the commander of Andersonville.
    (GEN Winder was the last official commander there & he passed away of disease before the Unionists could capture/hang him. - I don't think that there was any possibility that Winder was NOT responsible for that horror story of disease/starvation of so many prisoners).
    Dr./MAJ Wurtz was sent to Andersonville to try to fix the MESS that was there. While he tried to fix the mess, he was unsuccessful, as things were too far gone to do much to repair the starvation/disease.

    Yes his name was changed to WURTZ when he lived in LA & the name on his medical license is spelled Wurtz.

    Shelby Foote says that he WAS promoted to MAJ. - I don't know that answer for sure, however.

    The TRUTH is that MAJ Wurtz was a SCAPEGOAT. - The Unionists were going to hang SOMEBODY & Wurtz was an immigrant, a Roman Catholic but most of all he was AVAILABLE, so he got blamed. As I said a serving Brigadier General of the US Army signed off on the Board's action & CLEARED Wurtz of ANY responsibility in the FARCE that was his courts martial.
    (Even the record of the court martial states that he was allowed to call NO witnesses in his defense, nor was the cross-examining of any Union witnesses allowed. = Reading the record of the "kangaroo court" makes it OBVIOUS that the officers seated on the board were determined to hang him before the CM started, as he was to be a sacrifice since GEN Winder wasn't alive.)

    yours, satx
     

    phoenix

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    Bro, hope you are 100% correct!
    I am as nervous as a hot mouthed intern around bill clinton that this is wrong and democrats are primed. Remember republicans run on policy. Democrats run on demographics and they are pandering so hard for the brown vote now and have teh black vote pretty locked up. They went as far as having a would be cop killer's baby mama ( mike brown) onstage at the DNC like a hero.
     

    satx78247

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    phoenix,

    As I've said elsewhere, I'm an Election Judge in Bexar County & have 2 majority Latino precincts that until recently voted solidly Democrat.

    Now in 2018, BOTH are "toss-ups" & more likely than not to vote AGAINST the leftist/BIG-mouthed/ANTI-RC DIMocRATS.

    yours, satx
     
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