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Man Cave? Seeing a Woman

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by 35Remington, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. 35Remington

    35Remington TGT Addict

    Dec 9, 2011
    Way out here
    Someday I am going to have to have the conversation with my son. No, not the conversation all parents dread giving and all kids are mortified having. I enjoy making people uncomfortable so that conversation should be fun.

    No, I’m talking about another conversation. The one that happens after I catch his eye doing what male eyes do well – following an object of lust. We will probably be out at the mall, because that’s what dads do with their sons, and I’ll catch the look. Maybe we’ll go to the beach and see it. Doesn’t matter where it is, there will come a time when I will see it. And then it will be time for this conversation.

    Hey, come here. Let me talk to you. I saw you look at her. I’m not judging you or shaming you. I know why you did. I get it. But we have to talk about it because how you look at a woman matters.

    A lot of people will try and tell you that a woman should watch how she dresses so she doesn’t tempt you to look at her wrongly. Here is what I will tell you. It is a woman’s responsibility to dress herself in the morning. It is your responsibility to look at her like a human being regardless of what she is wearing. You will feel the temptation to blame her for your wandering eyes because of what she is wearing – or not wearing. But don’t. Don’t play the victim. You are not a helpless victim when it comes to your eyes. You have full control over them. Exercise that control. Train them to look her in the eyes. Discipline yourself to see her, not her clothes or her body. The moment you play the victim you fall into the lie that you are simply embodied reaction to external stimuli unable to determine right from wrong, human from flesh.

    Look right at me. That is a ridiculous lie.

    You are more than that. And the woman you are looking at is more than her clothes. She is more than her body. There is a lot of talk about how men objectify women, and largely, it is true. Humans objectify the things they love in effort to control them. If you truly love a person, do not reduce them to an object. The moment you objectify another human – woman or man, you give up your humanity.

    There are two views regarding a woman’s dress code that you will be pressured to buy into. One view will say that women need to dress to get the attention of men. The other view will say women need to dress to protect men from themselves. Son, you are better than both of these. A woman, or any human being, should not have to dress to get your attention. You should give them the full attention they deserve simply because they are a fellow human being. On the other side, a woman should not have to feel like she needs to protect you from you. You need to be in control of you.

    Unfortunately, much of how the sexes interact with each is rooted in fear. Fear of rejection, fear of abuse, fear of being out of control. In some ways, the church has added to this. We fear each other because we have been taught the other is dangerous. We’ve been a taught a woman’s body will cause men to sin. We’re told that if a woman shows too much of her body men will do stupid things. Let’s be clear: a woman’s body is not dangerous to you. Her body will not cause you harm. It will not make you do stupid things. If you do stupid things it is because you chose to do stupid things. So don’t contribute to the fear that exists between men and women.

    A woman’s body is beautiful and wonderful and mysterious. Respect it by respecting her as an individual with hopes and dreams and experiences and emotions and longings. Let her be confident. Encourage her confidence. But don’t do all this because she is weaker. That’s the biggest bunch of crap out there. Women are not weaker than men. They are not the weaker sex. They are the other sex.

    I’m not telling you to not look at women. Just the opposite. I’m telling you to see women. Really see them. Not just with your eyes, but with your heart. Don’t look to see something that tickles your senses, but see a human being.

    My hope is that changing how you see women will change how you are around them. Don’t just be around women. Be with women.
    Because in the end, they want to be with you. Without fear of being judged, or shamed, or condemned, or objectified, or being treated as other. And that’s not just what women want. That’s what people want.

    Ultimately, it’s what you want.

    Seeing a Woman: A conversation between a father and son | From One Degree to Another | Nate Pyle

  2. Vaquero

    Vaquero Pre-ban

    Apr 4, 2011
    Out West
    It beats grinning and saying "I'd hit that".
  3. mortdooley

    mortdooley Active Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Texas Gulf Coast
    That is not the conversation I had or would have had. Women want to look good out in public, my wife never gets to dress up like she did when she was younger and really misses it. Most years she gets together with female family and friends and go to see "The Nutcracker" in Houston, the men take a pass.

    Sexual assault has nothing to do with how someone dresses but about the sickness in the attacker.

    Considering how obese many people are bare middles, spandex and tight tops border on obscene exposure. Sometimes you need to gaze on beauty and some time it is OK for a woman to maximize her assets.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  4. benenglish

    benenglish Lifetime Supporter Staff Member Lifetime Member Admin

    Nov 22, 2011
    I don't get it. There's a disconnect between the title of your post and the narrative. What does all that have to do with "Man Cave?"

    I'm serious. I'm respectful because my father taught me that way. His father, a hard shell Baptist evangelist, taught him. My mother taught me that way. She was gorgeous and didn't mind men noticing but she demanded respect and equal treatment, seeing no conflict between her looks and her worth as a human being.

    Yet neither of my parents thought the sort of beautiful photography that was usually showcased in the Man Cave was disrespectful. My father was a photographer in Tokyo immediately after WWII and brought home a love of the hobby. His nude photos of my mom were works of art. I also became a photographer (for a while, when I was young) and created a number of lovely photographs of women in various stages of dress.

    Those works of art and the appreciation of them say nothing negative about my attitudes toward women. The same is true of much of what was in the Man Cave. (Yes, not everything found there was high art; I'll give you that much.)

    So what does the title ("Man Cave?") have to do with a call to "...see women...Not just with your eyes, but with your heart."? Surely you're not suggesting that seeing with our hearts should preclude also seeing with our eyes...and deeply appreciating the beauty all around us. Right? Or have I missed something?
  5. mortdooley

    mortdooley Active Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Texas Gulf Coast
    I believe the title was to show that it is wrong to objectify women and we should all be more respectful. No eye candy for you, the article seems Metro-sexual to me.
  6. Mic

    Mic TGT Addict TGT Supporter

    Jan 3, 2009
    Beautiful women are some of God's finest creations. I love to admire the beauty of women and I see nothing wrong with that.
    Catcalls or heavy staring with obscene gestures that embarrass her are different things, but the eyes fixating on a beautiful person walking by is not a bad thing. And I'm not likely to want to know the inner being of every attractive woman that walks by - that knowing the inner being stuff is for my ole lady.
  7. Glockster69

    Glockster69 TGT Addict BANNED!!!

    Jul 1, 2011
    Cuz somewhere, someone is tired of her dookie do too :p
  8. ZX9RCAM

    ZX9RCAM Over the Rainbow bridge... TGT Supporter

    May 14, 2008
    The Woodlands, Tx.
    Look at her & say...."she's purdier than a picture of a pet Giraffe"!
  9. Acera

    Acera TGT Addict

    Jan 17, 2011
    Republic of Texas
    It's nothing more than his attempt to continue to try and degenerate anybody associated with that part of the old forum. His self righteousness is getting tired as he tries to preach his intolerance of others opinions. Seems to be the same kind of guy that bitches and moans about what is on late night cable TV and does not understand that he can just not tune it in if he does not like it, he as to try to ban others from watching it. I guess in his mind he thinks his side 'won' something, Used the "Man Cave" phrase in the title to bring in those he likes to preach to. Reading his post made me throw up a little in my mouth. I guess if he wants to toot his own horn about how good he thinks he is and jack off his ego so be it.
  10. txinvestigator

    txinvestigator TGT Addict

    May 28, 2008
    Ft Worth, TX
    No, it is not. It is how honorable men should behave. As the father of a teenage daughter, I appreciate the article. It is a talk all men should have with their sons.

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