Mandatory Military Service......

[BuzzinSATX]

Mandatory Military Service.

The subject, mandatory military service. this subject comes up occasionally, many thinking that serving a mandatory period of time in one of the branches of the military would be good for every young person just leaving high school. In some ways I use to believe that as well. Now, not so sure.

Just some background on my thoughts an opinions. When I was still in high school, I wanted to join the military, primarily the Marine Corps, but due to medical issues beyond my control, the USMC denied my application for medical reasons, as did all of the other four branches of the military. (Yes, I even tried the Coast Guard) But my thoughts were, that joining voluntarily made it much more personal and had more meaning in terms of doing a patriotic duty. My father tried to get me to join the Air Force and my uncle was trying to push me towards the Navy, and had my grandfather been alive, I am pretty sure he would have been steering me to the Army! Well I wanted to join the Marine Corps. partly because I thought they were the meanest toughest SOB's that ever wore a uniform and partly to aggravate my entire family. But I wanted to enlist, to be part of a special fraternity, to be part of something much bigger and better than myself.

That is why part of me disagrees with making military service mandatory. I have to wonder if such individuals could be trusted when needed, since they are being forced to be there. In my way of thinking, I'd trust someone who volunteered faster than someone made to be there from mandatory requirement. I know some people cite that Switzerland does have such mandatory requirement for military or public service, and it does seem to work there, but IMO, I think their thoughts and cultures are much different than ours and they have been doing it for many, many years now.

Part of me thinks it could be bad, but part of me thinks it could be good, instilling values and ethics into the younger generation and making them appreciate what our veterans have been through.

What does everyone else think?

It's a nice thought, but in practice, simply would not work.

 

[dapakattack]

Love of country and other good values start at home. It is my responsibility to instill those in my son, not the government's.

Part of living in a Free society is the right to make your own choices. Mandatory Service, either civil or military, just reeks of Communist control.

 

[rotor]

Love of country and other good values start at home. It is my responsibility to instill those in my son, not the government's.

Part of living in a Free society is the right to make your own choices. Mandatory Service, either civil or military, just reeks of Communist control.

How about free for everyone. Is that not really how government controls you? Free cell phone, free money, free medical care, free housing, free food. We require children to get an education. Why not consider a short term government service as part of that education. Maybe it will instill values beyond the thought that the government will give you everything for free. That you have to work for your existence. If you then meet the criteria and want a career in the military or an appointment to West Point or whichever college you have the option. The present system does not seem to get the poorest least educated out of their present environment. I don't know why you call this communism because communism (or at least socialism) is the economic policy that we have for those with the lowest part of our society. The state will provide for you as long as you never move up the ladder.

 

[Younggun]

How about free for everyone. Is that not really how government controls you? Free cell phone, free money, free medical care, free housing, free food. We require children to get an education. Why not consider a short term government service as part of that education. Maybe it will instill values beyond the thought that the government will give you everything for free. That you have to work for your existence. If you then meet the criteria and want a career in the military or an appointment to West Point or whichever college you have the option. The present system does not seem to get the poorest least educated out of their present environment. I don't know why you call this communism because communism (or at least socialism) is the economic policy that we have for those with the lowest part of our society. The state will provide for you as long as you never move up the ladder.

Why do you think the government will choose to instill the values you believe in?

Again I ask, were you on the forum or do you remember when Obama wanted to do the same thing? Do you think a Biden/Kamala style government would use such a platform to instill the patriotism and work ethic you believe in? Or would they use it as a tool of indoctrination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Younggun]

In the end, the government is shit for instilling values. Look what public government run schools have done.

Why would you want to give them any more opportunity?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rotor]

Why do you think the government will choose to instill the values you believe in?

Again I ask, were you on the forum or do you remember when Obama wanted to do the same thing? Do you think a Biden/Kamala style government would use such a platform to instill the patriotism and work ethic you believe in? Or would they use it as a tool of indoctrination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Because I spent 8 years in the military and saw it gave a bunch of men and women character. It didn't matter if they were black or white or yellow or whatever, they came in as nothing and developed into good people. Patriotic good people. How was your military experience?

 

[Rhino]

Mandatory military service would have the effect of making a standing army permanent - which it kinda is now anyway, but is not what the founding fathers intended. I'm torn, because I honestly would have like to have had the option to go get 6 months of training and then be in reserve, but I wanted to be a pilot and I did NOT want to bomb Kosovo or Serbia or someplace I didn't really believe we should have been fighting in. I didn't think it would be fair to the other members of the team if I would have a problem in my conscience dropping a bomb on someone I didn't need to hurt - and yes, we had a friend who said he could help me get into the USAFA. I have every once in a while wondered what would have happened if I had taken that offer up, but I'm content.

 

[single stack]

Compulsory service for everyone won’t work.
I do think that military service should be a requirement to be a candidate for President or Senate.

 

[Axxe55]

Compulsory service for everyone won’t work.
I do think that military service should be a requirement to be a candidate for President or Senate.

I could even agree with it being a requirement for any elected office.

 

[Younggun]

Because I spent 8 years in the military and saw it gave a bunch of men and women character. It didn't matter if they were black or white or yellow or whatever, they came in as nothing and developed into good people. Patriotic good people. How was your military experience?

You chose to join. That’s a far cry from someone being forced to joint the military of some other government service against their will. Not even comparable to a draft since there is no extraordinary conflict to justify it.

The military didn’t wipe away who I was. I saw a guy hauled out in cuffs on the first day of basic. Saw people who did absolutely nothing just riding out the time. You can look around and find people who left the military and support socialism, etc.

Why on earth do you feel that whatever you got from 8 years of service will apply to someone forced do be there via government mandate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Younggun]

Compulsory service for everyone won’t work.
I do think that military service should be a requirement to be a candidate for President or Senate.

I could even agree with it being a requirement for any elected office.

Maybe. But I can think of at least as many shitty ex-military positions and candidates as I can good ones. And at least as many good non-military reps as good ex-military reps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gambler]

Heck, we could allow corporate profits parked overseas (money from which the USA never sees a penny)

That was passed in the 2017 tax law and the rate to repatriate cash is 15% tax rate on cash and 8% on non-cash and illiquid assets. How low do you want to make it ?

 

[perfor8]

Compulsory service is antithetical to liberty - full stop.

 

[Brains]

Full disclosure - I avoided entering the armed forces when I came out of high school. The recruiters were making contacts, and I remembered how they pestered my brother for months after taking the ASVAB. Even though looking back it would have been the smarted move to make, and I still regret not going in, that was enough to push me away. In my young mind since I couldn't pick what I wanted to do in the military, I wasn't going in - and I knew full well recruiters will tell any lie to get you signed up. I figured if I joined up they'd have me hidden away somewhere in a concrete building doing some sort of DIA work. Sure, I'd be great at it, but that's not what I wanted - I wanted to fly the fastest jets we make. I've been told by some vets I likely could have, but 17 year old me didn't know that.

Making service mandatory though, I'm not sure is the right answer for America. On one hand, it teaches a lot of things I had to learn the hard way. On the other, you don't tend to get the best of a person by pressuring them into things.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Because I spent 8 years in the military and saw it gave a bunch of men and women character. It didn't matter if they were black or white or yellow or whatever, they came in as nothing and developed into good people. Patriotic good people. How was your military experience?

There are tons of organizations the produce great quality Americans with those same traits.

What I learned over my military career is why that happens does not require military service.

Why that happens is because one common identity with a common purpose and belief set is forged starting on Zero Day. Everyone becomes a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine first, then learn to accomplish things as a team that the individual can’t accomplish individually. Marines build that identity to a degree far beyond any other service.

 

[etmo]

That was passed in the 2017 tax law and the rate to repatriate cash is 15% tax rate on cash and 8% on non-cash and illiquid assets. How low do you want to make it ?

That's a detail for some committee full of Econ/Business PhDs to work out, but IIRC when the concept was first pushed it was supposed to be 10% for cash, so when it came out at 15, many of the wealthiest corporations with the largest assets overseas (Google, etc) decided to repatriate very little, and certainly not nearly as much as models had predicted, because those corporations felt they could generate better ROI by expanding overseas operations.

So a committee like that might need to study the ROI such corporations are generating overseas, and put your repatriation rate such that it makes financial sense for those corporations to repatriate the money.

But if we accept the estimates of 2 trillion overseas that could be repatriated, and a 10% repatriation rate gets us 50% participation, then that's 100B in revenue, which is starting to look like real money...

 

[gambler]

That's a detail for some committee full of Econ/Business PhDs to work out, but IIRC when the concept was first pushed it was supposed to be 10% for cash, so when it came out at 15, many of the wealthiest corporations with the largest assets overseas (Google, etc) decided to repatriate very little, and certainly not nearly as much as models had predicted, because those corporations felt they could generate better ROI by expanding overseas operations.

So a committee like that might need to study the ROI such corporations are generating overseas, and put your repatriation rate such that it makes financial sense for those corporations to repatriate the money.

But if we accept the estimates of 2 trillion overseas that could be repatriated, and a 10% repatriation rate gets us 50% participation, then that's 100B in revenue, which is starting to look like real money...

$100 B is pretty much a rounding error these days.

 

[candcallen]

That is a good point about the 13th Amendment. Plus I doubt that mandatory service could also be applied to the right to vote either.

You are correct. Much of that could be fixed if parents would be parents, then raise and discipline their children, as needed, instead letting them become entitled and spoiled brats.

Check out the recent enlistment and training graduation rates. I just saw a story about good numbers.

The idea of mandatory anything in this country is just wrong, masks...obamacare...green energy, it seems to goes against what america is. I'll add to that the slightly hypocritical thought that such service would be beneficial to most young people especially in the narcissistic utopia of today's social media age.

I havnt thought about the draft in that light enough to comment on it. It creates as many issues as it solves. Draft Dodgers vers volunteer and shaming and....can you imaging the sheit storm that would erupt today?

 

[rotor]

You chose to join. That’s a far cry from someone being forced to joint the military of some other government service against their will. Not even comparable to a draft since there is no extraordinary conflict to justify it.

The military didn’t wipe away who I was. I saw a guy hauled out in cuffs on the first day of basic. Saw people who did absolutely nothing just riding out the time. You can look around and find people who left the military and support socialism, etc.

Why on earth do you feel that whatever you got from 8 years of service will apply to someone forced do be there via government mandate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What makes you think I chose to join? Ever hear of the Viet Nam war?
Some sort of service to government to gain the benefits of citizenship is not a lot to ask for. If you believe that everything should be free for those that never plan to contribute to society than I am barking up the wrong tree. There are definitely those that by physical means need government support but I don't think most do. I have always believed that you get what you work for and a short term of service, with pay, can bestow those benefits to individuals . I guess that those that don't feel that way think the present system is working better.

 

[rotor]

There are tons of organizations the produce great quality Americans with those same traits.

What I learned over my military career is why that happens does not require military service.

Why that happens is because one common identity with a common purpose and belief set is forged starting on Zero Day. Everyone becomes a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine first, then learn to accomplish things as a team that the individual can’t accomplish individually. Marines build that identity to a degree far beyond any other service.

Many organizations provide that you say but if one is never a member of the organization one never has the experience. I am not a believer in giving years into a forced program but 3 months into an organized program can do it. For me it was cub scout camp for the summer (voluntary), my military service was not voluntary but certainly shaped my existence.