Mantis X Firearms Training System

[Bozz10mm]

Okay, this gives a little better description of how it works and what it does.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/jeremy-s/gear-review-mantisx-firearms-training-system/

 

[benenglish]

Anyone running one of these?

Not me, at least not yet.

However, just for reference, it looks like an updated, pistol-centric, "Let's make it cheaper by applying technological advances" version of a SCATT. If it works as well, it could be incredibly useful. Also like the SCATT, without thoughtful interpretation and application, the data can do more to confuse the shooter than help. I've known people to get a SCATT and start chasing shots until their frustration level hit 11. After spending all that money, they sell the equipment for next to nothing and never want to have anything to do with such devices again.

Good diagnostic tools can make you a worse shooter if you don't know what to do with the data. Keep that in mind.

Given that it works on motion-sensing, I don't trust it to be as accurate as a SCATT - not anywhere close.

Also, from the YT vids I've watched, it tends to spew out "advice" that's about as valuable as those diagnostic targets. IOW, I think the traces could be analysed to good effect but I wouldn't want someone standing next to me and reading off those often-wrong cliches every time I press the trigger.

I will say, though, that at this price it's highly likely to be worth taking a chance. Just compare it to the gold-standard, been-around-forever, been-around-so-long-it-actually-looks-quaint SCATT! Heck, even the Rika, which was designed to be a cheaper alternative to the SCATT, is astronomically higher priced than the MantisX.

I may get one myself, mostly for dry-firing against a blank wall...which is definitely the way I'd suggest most people use it, at least in the beginning.

 

[benenglish]

You really want to see how shaky you are, mount a laser on your pistol.

There lie dragons.

No one short of a potential Olympian really needs to see how shaky they are. They need to understand that it's OK to be shaky. They need to understand that the best shots in the world are at least a little shaky.

While reducing shakiness is always a good thing, remember: not being shaky =/= shots on target. Those are two completely different things.

I've seen half a class of experienced shooters have their collective butt handed to them in competition by a 94-year-old man with visible tremors. He understood that precision shooting is mental; holding the gun steady is only a (very) small part of the equation.

 

[FireInTheWire]

I do believe I'll try one... But It'll have to wait till next pay period. I bought the wife a G43 on the way home last night....

 

[benenglish]

Sorry for this lengthy addendum but I don't think my previous post was sufficiently clear.

I think most of what the product produces is junk. Given the state of the product back in 2016, it was completely dismissable without a second thought.

However, they've updated it with trace data. I have no idea when they got around to doing that.

If I get one, it will be to analyze the trace data, about the only thing about the product that seems worthwhile to me. And I'll be analyzing that data using the expertise found elsewhere, written down by people who know what they're doing because they've been using the SCATT for a couple of decades.

Whether you're using a MantisX, SCATT, Rika, Noptel, Curt, or some other brand, these tools are only as useful as your ability to interpret the data they gather. I don't trust the application to do the interpretation for me. From the demos I've seen on YT, the in-app interpretations are wonky as hell.

I said that the trace data was "about the only thing" that intrigued me. I should also point out (and, for some people, this will be the big selling point) that devices like this greatly encourage dry-fire practice. Besides recoil and noise, the only difference between the range and dry-fire is the presence/absence of objective feedback after a shot. Having something that provides that feedback makes you want to dry-fire more.

And more dry-fire practice is something everyone needs to do.

 

[FireInTheWire]

Sorry for this lengthy addendum but I don't think my previous post was sufficiently clear.

I think most of what the product produces is junk. Given the state of the product back in 2016, it was completely dismissable without a second thought.

However, they've updated it with trace data. I have no idea when they got around to doing that.

If I get one, it will be to analyze the trace data, about the only thing about the product that seems worthwhile to me. And I'll be analyzing that data using the expertise found elsewhere, written down by people who know what they're doing because they've been using the SCATT for a couple of decades.

Whether you're using a MantisX, SCATT, Rika, Noptel, Curt, or some other brand, these tools are only as useful as your ability to interpret the data they gather. I don't trust the application to do the interpretation for me. From the demos I've seen on YT, the in-app interpretations are wonky as hell.

I said that the trace data was "about the only thing" that intrigued me. I should also point out (and, for some people, this will be the big selling point) that devices like this greatly encourage dry-fire practice. Besides recoil and noise, the only difference between the range and dry-fire is the presence/absence of objective feedback after a shot. Having something that provides that feedback makes you want to dry-fire more.

And more dry-fire practice is something everyone needs to do.

Got it. I'm with ya...

 

[avvidclif]

Everbody is shaky. The trick is to make it go bang when it's on target.

That's called "jerking the trigger". It's physically impossible to do. All you can do is minimize the movement and squeeze the trigger. It should be a surprise when it goes off unless you have thousands of rounds of practice with one gun. Sight alignment is more important than where you are on the target. If your circle of movement stays in the black so will the bullet, IF the sights are aligned. Having the front sight exactly on the bull but sight alignment shifted to one side9closing the gap)or the other will miss the black.

 

[Dawico]

Diagnostic shooting targets are laughable junk.

I hope no one on TGT ever makes the mistake of buying them.

I totally and completely disagree Ben. This one is accurate and helpful.

 

[Dawico]

I totally and completely disagree Ben. This one is accurate and helpful.

Not sure if the picture is working so here is another try.

 

[benenglish]

Not sure if the picture is working so here is another try.

Sorry. I can't see either of your attempts to post a picture.

If you're calling me on my BS, I will admit that there is one diagnostic target I find useful and accurate. A big like (Hey, that's the best I can do.) goes to anyone who can guess which one it is.

 

[Byrd666]

Unless it's the "Bloody Zombie", or some such, I have no idea. I'm lucky enough to hit the ground on most days. Let alone accurately hit a target.

 

[SloppyShooter]

Sight alignment is more important than where you are on the target. If your circle of movement stays in the black so will the bullet, IF the sights are aligned.

Yes, more important than where you are on the target is that the front and rear sights are properly aligned, which is what is killing me, because my sights are blurry. If I ever get some eyewear that brings them in to focus, my shooting will improve.

 

[easy rider]

I bought one and got it in the mail today. I haven't yet tried it live fire yet, too hot out, but have put over 100 shots dry fire. I started out just putting the basic information in and did ok, but then I used the advanced settings and actually got better. You don't have to have a certain target or distance, it seems to get the same results close up or farther away. My last 15 shots were all in the 90's and figured I will try later and see if I would do as well then. The app (free) was very easy to download and the unit, straight from the package only took about 10 minutes to full charge. The pairing, unit to phone app, only took seconds. I will say that this is probably the best trainer I have tried and it's very cool to get instant notifications on what corrections should be done.

 

[benenglish]

The product has evolved.

Also discussed more recently here: https://www.texasguntalk.com/threads/pistol-training-aid.86466/

 

[benenglish]

I totally and completely disagree Ben. This one is accurate and helpful.

...there is one diagnostic target I find useful and accurate.

That's the one.

For some reason, I can see the pictures now.

 

[easy rider]

The product has evolved.

Also discussed more recently here: https://www.texasguntalk.com/threads/pistol-training-aid.86466/

Yeah, I saw that. I wasn't sure which was better to put my comment, so I figured I would go with the older thread (that I saw anyway) and I certainly didn't want to start a new one based on the same topic.

 

[easy rider]

Live fire targets are fine, but I suck most the time and hate to stop once I do hit the bullseye. Having something that not only tells me what I'm doing wrong at that moment, not having to figure out which hole or remark from a distance, plus being able to use it during dry fire with much the same effect is great to me. The cost for the MantisX is minimal to the savings I believe it will give me in the long run. I will always prefer live fire over dry fire, but I can spend much more time in an air conditioned room of my home then I can in temperatures reaching or over 100.

 

[benenglish]

Since you got yours recently, you got the updated app. I'm curious if you find the trace data useful.

 

[easy rider]

Since you got yours recently, you got the updated app. I'm curious if you find the trace data useful.

Yes, although I find what I was doing wrong at the moment most useful it all helps me to improve. I have no aspirations of being a crack shot, but I'm always hoping to improve and I believe this is helping.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

That's why indoor ranges are great.
I also bring a rechargeable fan with me.