Mental Health and CHL

[Rattlesnake911]

I just purchased my girlfriend and I a handgun. I did it legally and the background check came back okay. But I was reading on Texas LTC requirements it says that if you were involuntary committed to psychiatric hospital and psychiatric hospital. I was voluntarily admitted to a behavioral health unit. When I was maybe 15, I was diagnosed with PTSD and Anxiety. I am wondering if I would have to disclose that or sense I was a minor and it was over 5 years at this point I would be okay to say no and just go through with it. I have been off of medication for at least 3 years if not 4. I am totally okay with going and getting a letter stating it is in remission and it should not come back. I also said no on the question in the background check where it asks if I was ever admitted to one due to a judge. Hopefully that was the right thing to do.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Welcome to the Forum!

 

[Wildcat Diva]

I have been very interested in these questions on the 4473 as a mental health provider. In my research of how to answer these questions, I absolutely believe that you answered them correctly.

The concern would be if you were court ordered to be in treatment, and you were not. “Adjudicated mental defective,” you were not.

And I have uncovered some information researching this topic that makes me think that once you are no longer under orders of a court ...that it falls off, but I can’t be absolutely sure on that. I’m happy to share the details of that once I find it again, but honestly, you have no worries about that due to it being a voluntary admission.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Now on the LTC, idk. Can you link to where the question is regarding LTC and mental health?

Is this different from the 4473 requirements or the same, I wonder?

 

[TexasRedneck]

The key word there is "involuntary". You weren't committed to a mental health facility by findings of legal proceedings, therefore you're GTG.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Doing more research:
http://www.stateoftexaschl.com/chl-faqs/
“Past psychiatric treatment does not necessarily make you ineligible. Eligibility for a concealed handgun license depends on whether or not your hospitalization in the psychiatric facility was a result of a court order, a board commitment, or a determination that you lacked the mental capacity to contract or manage your own affairs. If you voluntarily entered into the facility for treatment you may be eligible. Court ordered commitment for psychiatric treatment or court order outpatient treatment will make you ineligible since you have been legally adjudicated as a mental defective under the Gun Control Act 18 USC §922(g)(4). Eligibility will also depend on whether or not you were granted a relief of disabilities under the NICS Improvement Amendment Act. If you have spent time in a psychiatric care facility, you should attach a letter to your application from a licensed psychiatrist stating that your “condition is in remission and is not reasonably likely to develop at a future time,” as stated in the concealed handgun law. Please note, that you are required to list all psychiatric treatment or diagnoses on your application.”


Which is kind of bull shit. What provider is going to want to write a letter like that? I mean they should really think.

I think that “list all psychiatric diagnoses” is a bunch of crap. Diagnoses expire, I hope they know.

Now I’m annoyed.

 

[txinvestigator]

You need to list it.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

That’s complete crap of a law. So any psychiatric condition has to be listed, I see?

I’m completely against that.

Guess it’s a good thing I never took my kid to get diagnosed or treated for anxiety and we just decided to tough it out.

So he’s anxious yet undiagnosed and untreated, but now at least he can carry.


https://www.texasgunlaws.org/2015/09/30/chl-texas-eligibility/
* Cannot suffer from a psychiatric disorder or a similar condition described. this includes: is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a future time: requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment: has been diagnosed by a licensed physician, determined by a review
board or similar authority, or declared by a court to be incompetent to manage firearms

 

[txinvestigator]

That’s complete crap of a law. So any psychiatric condition has to be listed, I see?

I’m completely against that.

Guess it’s a good thing I never took my kid to get diagnosed or treated for anxiety and we just decided to tough it out.

So he’s anxious yet undiagnosed and untreated, but now at least he can carry.


https://www.texasgunlaws.org/2015/09/30/chl-texas-eligibility/
* Cannot suffer from a psychiatric disorder or a similar condition described. this includes: is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a future time: requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment: has been diagnosed by a licensed physician, determined by a review
board or similar authority, or declared by a court to be incompetent to manage firearms

You're smart, you should read the law yourself rather than someone else's summary

Texas Government Code 411.172 https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/GV/htm/GV.411.htm#411.172

Sec. 411.172. ELIGIBILITY.

(a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a handgun if the person:


(7) is not incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun;

(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(7), a person is incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person:

(1) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or intellectual ability;

(2) suffers from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subdivision (1) that:

(A) is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a future time; or

(B) requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment;

(3) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician, determined by a review board or similar authority, or declared by a court to be incompetent to manage the person's own affairs; or

(4) has entered in a criminal proceeding a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity.

(e) The following constitutes evidence that a person has a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d)(1):

(1) involuntary psychiatric hospitalization;

(2) psychiatric hospitalization;

(3) inpatient or residential substance abuse treatment in the preceding five-year period;

(4) diagnosis in the preceding five-year period by a licensed physician that the person is dependent on alcohol, a controlled substance, or a similar substance; or

(5) diagnosis at any time by a licensed physician that the person suffers or has suffered from a psychiatric disorder or condition consisting of or relating to:

(A) schizophrenia or delusional disorder;

(B) bipolar disorder;

(C) chronic dementia, whether caused by illness, brain defect, or brain injury;

(D) dissociative identity disorder;

(E) intermittent explosive disorder; or

(F) antisocial personality disorder.

(f) Notwithstanding Subsection (d), a person who has previously been diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d) or listed in Subsection (e) is not because of that disorder or condition incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person provides the department with a certificate from a licensed physician whose primary practice is in the field of psychiatry stating that the psychiatric disorder or condition is in remission and is not reasonably likely to develop at a future time.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Well. I tried to find it before yet couldn’t. I really struggle with searches and I waste hours not finding what I need from original sources.

I see some differences in the summary when comparing to the law, but not by much.

It’s still a crap law. Diagnoses expire.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Also, I’m not a licensed physician, yet I provide psychiatric diagnoses.

So, I am curious, if this law does only apply to those with diagnoses provided by licensed doctors (physician)?

A licensed professional counselor can provide all those same diagnoses, yet we are forbidden to call ourselves doctors and must correct anyone who makes that mistake to call us one.

 

[txinvestigator]

Well. I tried to find it before yet couldn’t. I really struggle with searches and I waste hours not finding what I need from original sources.

I see some differences in the summary when comparing to the law, but not by much.

It’s still a crap law. Diagnoses expire.

Some do, some don't.

We scream about mental health when the mass shootings happen, then we bitch about the laws that try to deal with that.

 

[craigntx]

Never let anybody know youre wackadoo
Thats how you get red flagged

 

[Rattlesnake911]

I have been very interested in these questions on the 4473 as a mental health provider. In my research of how to answer these questions, I absolutely believe that you answered them correctly.

The concern would be if you were court ordered to be in treatment, and you were not. “Adjudicated mental defective,” you were not.

And I have uncovered some information researching this topic that makes me think that once you are no longer under orders of a court ...that it falls off, but I can’t be absolutely sure on that. I’m happy to share the details of that once I find it again, but honestly, you have no worries about that due to it being a voluntary admission.

Mine was 100% done by me and my mom and there was a social worker there. But I believe that is standard protocol. I am happy to go and get a letter if that is what I need to do.

 

[Rattlesnake911]

You're smart, you should read the law yourself rather than someone else's summary

Texas Government Code 411.172 https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/GV/htm/GV.411.htm#411.172

Sec. 411.172. ELIGIBILITY.

(a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a handgun if the person:


(7) is not incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun;

(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(7), a person is incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person:

(1) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or intellectual ability;

(2) suffers from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subdivision (1) that:

(A) is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a future time; or

(B) requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment;

(3) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician, determined by a review board or similar authority, or declared by a court to be incompetent to manage the person's own affairs; or

(4) has entered in a criminal proceeding a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity.

(e) The following constitutes evidence that a person has a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d)(1):

(1) involuntary psychiatric hospitalization;

(2) psychiatric hospitalization;

(3) inpatient or residential substance abuse treatment in the preceding five-year period;

(4) diagnosis in the preceding five-year period by a licensed physician that the person is dependent on alcohol, a controlled substance, or a similar substance; or

(5) diagnosis at any time by a licensed physician that the person suffers or has suffered from a psychiatric disorder or condition consisting of or relating to:

(A) schizophrenia or delusional disorder;

(B) bipolar disorder;

(C) chronic dementia, whether caused by illness, brain defect, or brain injury;

(D) dissociative identity disorder;

(E) intermittent explosive disorder; or

(F) antisocial personality disorder.

(f) Notwithstanding Subsection (d), a person who has previously been diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d) or listed in Subsection (e) is not because of that disorder or condition incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person provides the department with a certificate from a licensed physician whose primary practice is in the field of psychiatry stating that the psychiatric disorder or condition is in remission and is not reasonably likely to develop at a future time.

See I've read this over and over. I'm still nervous about just going and saying no and they find it. If I have to get a letter by a psychiatrist I'm more than happy. But I think it will be a little bit for them to just give it to me.

 

[Rattlesnake911]

I contacted Tx law shield to and they said they would give me a call within 24 to 72 hours. And hopefully they can give me a little more insight as to what I can do or if I can do anything. Hopefully sense I passed NICS I can. I would think it would have popped up there but maybe not.

 

[txinvestigator]

NICS standards are lower than the Texas law for LTC.

It is clear you have to lost it.

 

[Frank59]

I contacted Tx law shield to and they said they would give me a call within 24 to 72 hours. And hopefully they can give me a little more insight as to what I can do or if I can do anything. Hopefully sense I passed NICS I can. I would think it would have popped up there but maybe not.

I'm not sure TLS is the right place to be getting advise on something of this nature.

 

[Rattlesnake911]

I'm not sure TLS is the right place to be getting advise on something of this nature.

No? They wouldn't be the best place to get this kind of legal advice? On? I mean I can go to forums all day and ask or Google. But I figured someone who knows the law would be a start.

 

[Frank59]

No? They wouldn't be the best place to get this kind of legal advice? On? I mean I can go to forums all day and ask or Google. But I figured someone who knows the law would be a start.

I think you would be better off seeking legal advise on psychiatric history some where else. TLS is in the business of selling insurance policies. If you feel comfortable with them then by all means carry on. I'm on your side buddy and hope all turns out well for you.