More acquittals in BLM standoff
- Thread starter TheDan
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By coincidence, I used that picture not too long ago.
https://www.quora.com/When-was-the-...ns?__filter__&__nsrc__=2&__snid3__=1352644440
https://www.quora.com/When-was-the-...ns?__filter__&__nsrc__=2&__snid3__=1352644440
Great article.
Kudos to the Jury of Peers! I'm a big believer in 'Jury Nullification' of Judges' "jury instructions" - the jury not only has the right, but the obligation to make simple determinations of right and wrong. The complexity of modern law and even how or why laws have come into existence (OR by who's permission), has been given preeminence over the say of a trial by a jury of your peers. The jury needs to take back it's power that is the ancient historical basis of English Common Law.
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yep.
It's certainly a heart warming story, but one thing I found really interesting/disturbing in the article was it seemed like the judge was trying to suppress the defense's arguments. In the end they just stood mute. Interesting tactic.
Juries are impaneled, among other reasons, to determine who in the courtroom is credible. They are allowed to make up their minds about who is lying to them and who isn't.
The lies begin in voir dire when potential jurors are told that they are supposed to follow the instructions of the judge. Generally, we follow instructions of the person in charge because that makes things go smoothly. However, jurors must never forget that anyone in the courtroom may be lying to them; that includes the judge.
I'll never forget a voir dire during which the prosecutor brought up the topic of jury nullification. (And for a prosecutor to bring it up, you know something had to have gone seriously wrong.) The charge was aggravated sexual assault of a child but the defendant looked like he was in his late teens, if that. Since it was aggravated, the victim had to be under (or equal? I forget.) to 14. Pretty much everyone in the room realized the same thing at the same time - this might well be a high school senior who got caught with his freshman girlfriend whose parents freaked out.
Sure, it could have been something else but at that stage, no one knew anything.
Except, that is, for a couple of middle school teachers.
One of them raised her hand, was recognized, and asked "You mean we're supposed to accept without question the notion that no one under 14 can give informed consent?"
Prosecutor: "Absolutely. That's the law."
Teacher: "Well, I'm a middle school teacher and if you don't believe that 12-year-olds are having sex every day, all the time, while knowing exactly what they're doing, I've got some news for you..."
Prosecutor: "You can't let your personal experience inform your decision. You must follow the law."
Things went on for a while and another woman raised her hand, was recognized, and identified herself as also being a middle school teacher.
Teacher: "Are you serious about this whole thing of being forced to consider anyone under a certain age as unable to give consent? Because I've seen plenty of things that..."
At this point, the prosecutor blew up and started yelling about how substituting your own judgement for the instructions of the judge in this matter was jury nullification, a detestable and illegal act.
I found myself thinking three things as she ranted and raved for several minutes.
- I knew that it's legal for her to lie to us during voir dire but I wondered how many other people knew that.
- I wondered how she'd react if I asked "How wrong were all those juries who refused to uphold the Fugitive Slave Act?"
- I wished she played poker. The way her hands shook, the way she stomped her feet, the way her voice wavered, and the way her head darted around when she was lying made me wish I had her at a poker table. She had more tells than anyone I've ever seen. Truly, it was something amazing to behold.
ETA: One more thing - Perhaps the funniest thing that happened during all this was watching the defense attorney while the prosecutor was ranting and raving. He was trying with all his might to keep himself from bursting out in laughter. A couple of times he had to turn his head away from the panel and force himself to cough in order to hide his facial expressions.
Absolutely. Hilarious.
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All I know is, IF I ever got on a jury, you can bet your bottom dollar, once we got behind closed doors in deliberations the other jury members would hear my take on any of the judge's comments that I disagreed with. When you've been empowered to determine someone's fate, then is not the time to "fall in" and be a sheeple.
I don't really have to worry - I'd never be selected to actually serve on a jury.
My preacher imparted the knowledge of a 'sure fire' way to always get "excused" from jury duty. Since you're allowed to bring a book to read during waiting time to be interviewed for jury selection. Just make sure it's The Holy Bible (the larger, the better) and black with LARGE bright gold print, announcing itself as being The Holy Bible (so it can be seen from across the room). If the prosecutor elects to not immediately "dismiss you for cause" and decides to ask you a question concerning guilt and/or punishment, then just speak softly uttering something about "forgiveness" and turning the other cheek. And Presto! Just like magic, you're sent home for the day (assuming ya don't stop by the strip club on your way home!).
My preacher imparted the knowledge of a 'sure fire' way to always get "excused" from jury duty. Since you're allowed to bring a book to read during waiting time to be interviewed for jury selection. Just make sure it's The Holy Bible (the larger, the better) and black with LARGE bright gold print, announcing itself as being The Holy Bible (so it can be seen from across the room). If the prosecutor elects to not immediately "dismiss you for cause" and decides to ask you a question concerning guilt and/or punishment, then just speak softly uttering something about "forgiveness" and turning the other cheek. And Presto! Just like magic, you're sent home for the day (assuming ya don't stop by the strip club on your way home!).
So the goal is to get out of doing your civic duty as quickly as possible.I don't really have to worry - I'd never be selected to actually serve on a jury.
My preacher imparted the knowledge of a 'sure fire' way to always get "excused" from jury duty. Since you're allowed to bring a book to read during waiting time to be interviewed for jury selection. Just make sure it's The Holy Bible (the larger, the better) and black with LARGE bright gold print, announcing itself as being The Holy Bible (so it can be seen from across the room). If the prosecutor elects to not immediately "dismiss you for cause" and decides to ask you a question concerning guilt and/or punishment, then just speak softly uttering something about "forgiveness" and turning the other cheek. And Presto! Just like magic, you're sent home for the day (assuming ya don't stop by the strip club on your way home!).
Is it odd to be in my early 30's and have never received a jury notice?
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I suppose it depends on how long you've lived in the same location.
I used to say that. I even got to my late 40's before getting tagged the first time. But they sure have made up for it since then. I even got tagged for Federal jury duty which put me on call every week for 3 months.
For some reason every time I tell them what I feel is justice, I get sent home. I wasn't trying to get out of it, just telling it how it is.
I got tagged for federal jury duty back when I was in college - so I got out of it - due to attending school in a different region.
But they use so many different sources nowadays (not just voter roles), some level of government will eventually call you - assuming you do stay in one place long enough. One location (city court) pulled name once from the water bills. I asked them how they got my name (since I wasn't registered to vote at the time), the guy said, "Oh, we use the municipal water service records."
Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you!
But they use so many different sources nowadays (not just voter roles), some level of government will eventually call you - assuming you do stay in one place long enough. One location (city court) pulled name once from the water bills. I asked them how they got my name (since I wasn't registered to vote at the time), the guy said, "Oh, we use the municipal water service records."
Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you!
Not if you want to be successful.
All it takes is a note from the foreman, passed to the bailiff and on to the judge, documenting the fact that you're not following the judge's instructions, especially if you've been so unwise as to say the word "nullification" aloud. According to my long-held belief and a bit of research I just did to check myself, in most states you can be removed from a jury after the case has gone to deliberation.
If anyone can comment authoritatively on the state of the law in Texas, I'd be much obliged.
In any event, you're asking for far less drama in your life if you just find that the prosecution failed to prove their case adequately in your opinion. Being a lone hold-out isn't easy but feel free to replay "12 Angry Men" in your head while people yell at you.
Being removed wouldn't be my main concern - in fact, I'd welcome that. (See my follow-on post).
The bigger problem in my estimation, would be the judge finding me in contempt of court. Now that would be a problem. Which is the main consideration I have for not having any desire to participate in our legal system.
ETA: Since prosecutors are mostly concerned with their 'score card' (record), IMHO, it's far easier to just not allow yourself to be selected in the first place. That way, I limit my exposure to any potential liability for running afoul of some judge.
The bigger problem in my estimation, would be the judge finding me in contempt of court. Now that would be a problem. Which is the main consideration I have for not having any desire to participate in our legal system.
ETA: Since prosecutors are mostly concerned with their 'score card' (record), IMHO, it's far easier to just not allow yourself to be selected in the first place. That way, I limit my exposure to any potential liability for running afoul of some judge.
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Standard IANAL disclaimer is in effect. Obviously.
Essentially, it's not going to happen if you keep your mouth shut about nullification and simply determine in good faith that the prosecution has not met their burden. For example, find a reason that a key prosecution witness did not seem sufficiently credible to you. Then sit back and stay resolute.
Nullification need not be a messy affair if you have any idea what you're doing. If you're really worried about it, peruse the material from the Fully Informed Jury Association before you show up for voir dire. It'll put your mind at ease and make the process much less stressful.
It's pretty well established that you can't be convicted of a crime for what you say in the jury room. Contempt is slightly less clear. It's been tried and people have had to spend years fighting but they eventually won, at least in the cases I've read about.
Essentially, it's not going to happen if you keep your mouth shut about nullification and simply determine in good faith that the prosecution has not met their burden. For example, find a reason that a key prosecution witness did not seem sufficiently credible to you. Then sit back and stay resolute.
Nullification need not be a messy affair if you have any idea what you're doing. If you're really worried about it, peruse the material from the Fully Informed Jury Association before you show up for voir dire. It'll put your mind at ease and make the process much less stressful.
