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  • ShootWhenICan

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    AP IMPACT: More air passengers show up with guns


    WASHINGTON (AP) — Several times every day, at airports across the country, passengers are trying to walk through security with loaded guns in their carry-on bags, purses or pockets, even in a boot. And, more than a decade after 9/11 raised consciousness about airline security, it's happening a lot more often.


    In the first six months of this year, Transportation Security Administration screeners found 894 guns on passengers or in their carry-on bags, a 30 percent increase over the same period last year. The TSA set a record in May for the most guns seized in one week — 65 in all, 45 of them loaded and 15 with bullets in the chamber and ready to be fired. That was 30 percent more than the previous record of 50 guns, set just two weeks earlier.


    Last year TSA found 1,549 firearms on passengers attempting to go through screening, up 17 percent from the year before.


    In response to a request from The Associated Press, the agency provided figures on the number of firearm incidents in 2011 and 2012 for all U.S. airports, as well as the number of passengers screened at each airport. The AP analyzed the data, as well as weekly blog reports from the agency on intercepted guns from this year and last year.


    TSA didn't keep statistics on guns intercepted before 2011, but officials have noticed an upward trend in recent years, said spokesman David Castelveter.


    Some of the details make officials shake their heads.


    As one passenger took off his jacket to go through screening in Sacramento, Calif., last year, TSA officers noticed he was wearing a shoulder holster, and in it was a loaded 9 mm pistol. The same passenger was found to have three more loaded pistols, 192 rounds of ammunition, two magazines and three knives.


    Screeners elsewhere found a .45-caliber pistol and magazine hidden inside a cassette deck. Another .45-caliber pistol loaded with seven rounds, including a round in the chamber, was hidden under the lining of a carry-on bag in Charlotte, N.C. A passenger in Allentown, Pa., was carrying a pistol designed to look like a writing pen. At first the passenger said it was just a pen, but later acknowledged it was a gun, according to TSA.


    A passenger in March at Bradley Hartford International Airport in Connecticut had a loaded .38-caliber pistol containing eight rounds strapped to his lower left leg. At Salt Lake City International Airport, a gun was found inside a passenger's boot strapped to a prosthetic leg.


    TSA doesn't believe these gun-toting passengers are terrorists, but the agency can't explain why so many passengers try to board planes with guns, either, Castelveter said. The most common excuse offered by passengers is "I forgot it was there."


    "We don't analyze the behavioral traits of people who carry weapons. We're looking for terrorists," he said. "But sometimes you have to scratch your head and say, 'Why?'"


    Many passengers found to have guns by screeners are arrested, but not all. It depends on the gun laws where the airport is located. If the state or jurisdiction where the airport is located has tolerant gun laws, TSA screeners will frequently hand the gun back to the passenger and recommend locking it in a car or finding some other safe place for it. The government doesn't track what happens to the people who are arrested.


    Is it plausible that some people are so used to carrying guns that they simply forget that they have them, even when they're at an airport about to walk through a scanner? Or do some people try to bring their guns with them when they fly because they think they won't get caught?


    Jimmy Taylor, a sociology professor at Ohio University-Zanesville and the author of several books on the nation's gun culture, said some gun owners are so used to carrying concealed weapons that it's no different to them than carrying keys or a wallet.


    The most common reason people say they carry guns is for protection, so it also makes sense that most of the guns intercepted by TSA are loaded, Taylor said. Many gun owners keep their weapons loaded so they're ready if needed, he said.


    Even so, Taylor said he finds it hard to believe airline passengers forget they're carrying guns.


    "My wife and I check on things like eye drops and Chapstick to see if we're allowed to take them on a plane, so it's a little difficult to imagine that you aren't checking the policies about your loaded firearm before you get to the airport," he said.


    Occasionally passengers stopped by TSA are people who are used to carrying guns because they work in law enforcement, security or the military, but that doesn't appear to be the case most of the time.


    Robert Spitzer, an expert on gun policy and gun rights, theorizes that for some, the "I forgot" answer is an excuse, "just like somebody who walks out of a store with an unpaid-for item in their pocket. The first thing that person will say is, 'I forgot.' Do people forget sometimes? Sure they do. But are there also people who try to shoplift to get away with something? Sure there are, and I think that's no less true with guns."


    Eighty-five percent of the guns intercepted last year were loaded. The most common type of gun was a .38-caliber pistol.
    Airports in the South and the West, where the American gun culture is strongest, had the greatest number of guns intercepted, according to TSA data.


    Of the 12 airports with the most guns last year, five are in Texas: Dallas-Fort Worth International, 80 guns; George Bush Intercontinental in Houston, 52; Dallas Love Field, 37; William P. Hobby in Houston, 35, and Austin-Bergstrom International, 33. Hartsfield-Jackson in Atlanta had the most for any airport, at 96. Others include Phoenix Sky Harbor, 54; Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International in Florida, 42; Denver International, 39; Seattle-Tacoma International, 37; Orlando International Airport in Florida, 36, and Tampa International in Florida, 33.


    When expressed as a proportion of airport traffic volume, small airports in the West and South led the way. The airport in Roswell, N.M., had 8.5 guns intercepted per 100,000 passengers last year; Cedar City, Utah, and Provo, Utah, both 6.5; Longview, Texas, 4.9; Dickinson, N.D., 4; Joplin, Mo., 3.8; Twin Falls, Idaho, 3.4; Fort Smith, Ark., 3.3, and Walla Walla, Wash., and Elko, Nev., both 2.9.


    By contrast, at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York, where TSA screened nearly 27 million passengers last year, there was a single passenger found to have a gun.


    "There are some Americans who believe that there are no limits, that they not only have a constitutional but a God-given right to have a gun and 'By gosh, if I want to bring a gun on a plane I'm going to do it,'" said Spitzer, a professor at the State University of New York-Cortland.


    TSA's count of guns intercepted doesn't include all the other kinds of prohibited "guns" that TSA screeners find, like flare guns, BB guns, air guns, spear guns, pellet guns and starter pistols. Screeners find half a dozen to several dozen stun guns on passengers or in their carry-on bags each week. Last December, screeners stopped a passenger in Boston with seven stun guns in his bag. He said they were Christmas presents. The same week, screeners spotted 26 stun guns in the carry-on bag of a passenger at JFK. TSA has found several stun guns disguised as smartphones, and one that looked like a package of cigarettes.


    Passengers are allowed to take guns with them when they fly, but only as checked baggage. They are required to fill out a form declaring the weapons and to carry them in a hard-sided bag with a lock.


    Most of those who are stopped with guns are reluctant to talk about it afterward. One who didn't mind was Raymond Whitehead, 53, of Santa Fe, N.M., who was arrested at Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey in May after screeners spotted 10 hollow-point bullets in his carry-on bag. Whitehead, who is completely blind, also had a .38 caliber Charter Arms revolver in his checked bag that he had failed to declare. He said in an interview with the AP that he was unaware of the specifics of the rules for checking guns, or that hollow-point bullets are illegal in New Jersey.


    Whitehead acknowledged that it seems "counterintuitive" for a blind man to have a gun but said he keeps a loaded gun handy for protection from intruders. In such a situation, he said, he would call out a warning that he had a gun and spray bullets in the direction of the noise if the intruder didn't leave.


    "I have five shots, and if I fan it out I'm going to hit you," said Whitehead, a National Rifle Association member who owns five guns.
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    benenglish

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    Whitehead acknowledged that it seems "counterintuitive" for a blind man to have a gun...
    While I disagree with his attitude that it's OK to spray fire in the direction of a threatening sound I don't think it's bad for blind folks to have guns IF they've done their homework. I once briefly knew a blind man who used a wheelchair. He kept a large-bore, short-barrel revolver loaded with blanks. His thinking was that if he was attacked he could press the muzzle into an attacker and pull the trigger. We all know (or should know) how dangerous 5-in-1 blanks are at contact or very close distances.

    There are also shooting sports for the blind but that's a whole 'nother world.
     

    ShootWhenICan

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    Yep, there definitely are people out there who give all of us a bad name.
    That being said I take anything the AP writes with a grain of salt.
     

    TwinGlocks

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    I almost brought a gun to the airport. One night I put my carry gun in my carry bag and forgot about it. A couple days later, I noticed my gun was not where I usually keep it when I'm at home. The next day, I was scheduled to fly to New Orleans and had I not realized my gun was not where it usually is, I would have picked up my computer bag with the gun in it and put it right through the x-ray scanner at airport security.

    Now whenever I travel, I will check my bags for weapons and account for all handguns in the house. I don't want to go for that kind of ride at the airport, ain't nobody got time for that.
     

    txinvestigator

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    I know that people can forget. I used to travel for work, both driving and flying. I kept a second handgun in the console of my truck, and when I checked into hotels I would place the second handgun in my backpack to prevent theft. Once, I forgot to put the handgun back when I checked out. The next day I was headed to the airport. I always used my backpack as a carry on, and when I arrived at the airport I checked my backpack while I was still in the truck. I discovered I had left the gun in the backpack, and it was a pucker moment.

    This problem is so bad that the TSA sent a letter to many gun ranges. It included a reminder that guns could not be carried on, a chart of allowed and prohibited items, and a request that CHL students be given extra instruction. Apparently, many of the folks trying to carry on board were CHL holders who insisted their Instructors taught a CHL holder could carry on board. :confused:
     

    Shorts

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    The article is writing on the wall that gun vs non-gun people have different views on firearms. What they can't get their head around is that there is a segment of the population who look at gun as no big deal.

    They (author of article) said it themselves, "Is it plausible that some people are so used to carrying guns that they simply forget that they have them, even when they're at an airport about to walk through a scanner?" Newsflash, not just possible but in fact true. It is in our house. They just don't believe it because they'd like to apply some sort of ill intent. Why? Because the object, a gun, is perceived to be bad. And people doing anything with them, especially in public is considered bad.

    Until a non-gun person has carried or lived in a way that gun person does, they won't gather the full understanding of what we say or do.

    But the concept doesn't have to be a gun vs non gun perspective. It could be a pro-gun person exhibiting the psychological change where "I forgot" is completely legitimate. A typical example from "our side" is the first time concealed carrier. We've all experienced it, and each new CHLer will experience it. The first time carrying one is nervous, feels like they are doing something wrong, feels like everyone can tell they are carrying, feels like everyone is looking at the them. There is a level of anxiety present. I believe that is the baseline mindset of the general population, including us gun people. It isn't until one has carried for a little while that the anxiety of 'doing something wrong' is gone. I experienced it the first time I carried, yes it was Walmart. But now 9yrs later, I am as comfortable carrying my ccw as I a carrying my wallet or cell phone. I do not remember the point at which carrying felt normal. I merely recognized one day I wasn't self-conscious anymore.

    I think if a group/researcher intends to do a respectable, serious experiment to gather info to back the psychology of what I (we) are saying that carrying a firearm is easy to forget, then they have to follow a person who is preparing to conceal carry. From beginning - pre-carry, pre-permit, pre-class, pre-gun purchase all the way through EDC without a second thought. I don't think there is a set amount of time that it takes for a person to go from anxious to normal. It likely varies person to person. But it does happen.
     

    Shorts

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    I'm wired this morning so I'm rambling...

    I'm answering the article for an anti or AP person tracking back their links. They can at least read answers to their statements & questions.


    AP IMPACT: More air passengers show up with guns


    WASHINGTON (AP) — Several times every day, at airports across the country, passengers are trying to walk through security with loaded guns in their carry-on bags, purses or pockets, even in a boot. And, more than a decade after 9/11 raised consciousness about airline security, it's happening a lot more often.


    In the first six months of this year, Transportation Security Administration screeners found 894 guns on passengers or in their carry-on bags, a 30 percent increase over the same period last year. Curious if carry permits correspond with the increase. The TSA set a record in May for the most guns seized in one week — 65 in all, 45 of them loaded It should be, Israeli carry is an ft' debated condition and 15 with bullets in the chamber and ready to be fired. As it should be That was 30 percent more than the previous record of 50 guns, set just two weeks earlier.Curious if the timing corresponds with family travel/seasonal travel patterns for work & vacation.


    Last year TSA found 1,549 firearms on passengers attempting to go through screening, up 17 percent from the year before.Not surprising. Gun sales have been up since last December. That includes first time owners.


    In response to a request from The Associated Press, the agency provided figures on the number of firearm incidents in 2011 and 2012 for all U.S. airports, as well as the number of passengers screened at each airport. The AP analyzed the data, as well as weekly blog reports from the agency on intercepted guns from this year and last year.


    TSA didn't keep statistics on guns intercepted before 2011, but officials have noticed an upward trend in recent years, said spokesman David Castelveter. Why not?


    Some of the details make officials shake their heads. As if it is hard to confuse TSA.


    As one passenger took off his jacket to go through screening in Sacramento, Calif., last year, TSA officers noticed he was wearing a shoulder holster, and in it was a loaded 9 mm pistol. Yes, EDC. The same passenger was found to have three more loaded pistols, 192 rounds of ammunition, two magazines and three knives. Found where?


    Screeners elsewhere found a .45-caliber pistol and magazine hidden inside a cassette deck. That is not above the board. Another .45-caliber pistol loaded with seven rounds, yes, 1911s are standard 7rd capacity. including a round in the chamber, Standard cocked & locked, Condition 1 was hidden under the lining of a carry-on bag in Charlotte, That is not above the board N.C. A passenger in Allentown, Pa., was carrying a pistol designed to look like a writing pen.Heh cool, about the pen, not the guy trying to smuggle it. Not above the board. At first the passenger said it was just a pen, but later acknowledged it was a gun, according to TSA. He was wrong to not declare it from the beginning.


    A passenger in March at Bradley Hartford International Airport in Connecticut had a loaded .38-caliber pistol containing eight rounds strapped to his lower left leg. Known as ankle carry or BUG (back up gun) At Salt Lake City International Airport, a gun was found inside a passenger's boot strapped to a prosthetic leg.Same as above, ankle carry. The guy having a prosthetic leg doesn't change anything. He likely wears it on that leg because it wouldn't present any discomfort like holsters sometimes create. Plus it is not his weight bearing strong leg. So in the event it needed to be presented, he wouldn't fall off balance.


    TSA doesn't believe these gun-toting passengers are terrorists, Ok, keep on going... but the agency can't explain why so many passengers try to board planes with guns Go on..., either, Castelveter said. The most common excuse offered by passengers is "I forgot it was there." Exactly, and in the majority of times this is the case.


    "We don't analyze the behavioral traits of people who carry weapons. We're looking for terrorists," he said. "But sometimes you have to scratch your head and say, 'Why?'" Asked and answered, people forget.


    Many passengers found to have guns by screeners are arrested, but not all. It depends on the gun laws where the airport is located.Lesson for CCWers, check your state laws regarding off limits areas. If the state or jurisdiction where the airport is located has tolerant gun laws, TSA screeners will frequently hand the gun back to the passenger and recommend locking it in a car or finding some other safe place for it. This is exactly as it should be handled. Thank you to the agents for making proper decisions. The government doesn't track what happens to the people who are arrested.Heh, pick and choose info...got it. Consider giving the full story start to finish. It will explain the incident.


    Is it plausible that some people are so used to carrying guns that they simply forget that they have them, even when they're at an airport about to walk through a scanner? Not only plausible but fact. Or do some people try to bring their guns with them when they fly because they think they won't get caught? I would guess there are people that try to skirt laws and procedures. They believe they are the exception to the rule. Happens everywhere, not just the airport.


    Jimmy Taylor, a sociology professor at Ohio University-Zanesville and the author of several books on the nation's gun culture, said some gun owners are so used to carrying concealed weapons that it's no different to them than carrying keys or a wallet. He's right. I would like to see some of his research. Sounds like an interesting study and it is about time actual facts were put down in regards to the psychology. That would answer your questions of "why?" when you do not understand what gun owners do.


    The most common reason people say they carry guns is for protection,absolutely so it also makes sense that most of the guns intercepted by TSA are loaded,See, you are getting it. You are smart enough to get it. I think you play dumb to uphold your antigun position. Taylor said. Many gun owners keep their weapons loaded so they're ready if needed, he said. And unloaded gun is just a hammer.


    Even so, Taylor said he finds it hard to believe airline passengers forget they're carrying guns. Does Mr Taylor carry? And past that, getting ready for an airport trip takes a little extra attention because of their rules. The most seasoned travelers and seasons CCWers get caught by scheduling and random circumstances where overlooking logistics and pack out is easy to do.


    "My wife and I check on things like eye drops and Chapstick to see if we're allowed to take them on a plane, so it's a little difficult to imagine that you aren't checking the policies about your loaded firearm before you get to the airport," he said.Do you EDC? If not, I understand why you think it is difficult to imagine.
     

    Shorts

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    Continued...

    Occasionally passengers stopped by TSA are people who are used to carrying guns because they work in law enforcement, security or the military, but that doesn't appear to be the case most of the time.Now follow through with the half statement and say that many who are stopped are CCWers. Or are just folks who attempt to skirt the rules about declaring firearms and packing properly.


    Robert Spitzer, an expert on gun policy and gun rights, theorizes that for some, the "I forgot" answer is an excuse, "just like somebody who walks out of a store with an unpaid-for item in their pocket. The first thing that person will say is, 'I forgot.' Do people forget sometimes? Sure they do. But are there also people who try to shoplift to get away with something? Sure there are, and I think that's no less true with guns." lol "Expert" on gun policy. His position and mission is to control firearms with rules. I bet he believes any gun owner has ill-intent.


    Eighty-five percent of the guns intercepted last year were loaded. Good. People are vigilant and not naive. The most common type of gun was a .38-caliber pistol. A .38spl revolver is pretty comon and easy pocket carry.
    Airports in the South and the West, where the American gun culture is strongest, had the greatest number of guns intercepted, according to TSA data. Because those areas are casual to firearms. People aren't afraid of them. People know them. People use them. Like we all drive pickup trucks and speak with a weird accent.


    Of the 12 airports with the most guns last year, five are in Texas I won't lie, I'm kinda proud of that: Dallas-Fort Worth International, 80 guns; George Bush Intercontinental in Houston, 52; Dallas Love Field, 37; William P. Hobby in Houston, 35, and Austin-Bergstrom International, 33. Hartsfield-Jackson in Atlanta had the most for any airport, at 96. Others include Phoenix Sky Harbor, 54; Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International in Florida, 42; Denver International, 39; Seattle-Tacoma International, 37; Orlando International Airport in Florida, 36, and Tampa International in Florida, 33.


    When expressed as a proportion of airport traffic volume, small airports in the West and South led the way. Not surprising. The level of rules at airports is much stricter than the attitudes of the region. If everything is a crime, no one is law-abiding. Also, people travel to those areas to hunt. The airport in Roswell, N.M., had 8.5 guns intercepted per 100,000 passengers last year; Cedar City, Utah, and Provo, Utah, both 6.5; Longview, Texas, 4.9; Dickinson, N.D., 4; Joplin, Mo., 3.8; Twin Falls, Idaho, 3.4; Fort Smith, Ark., 3.3, and Walla Walla, Wash., and Elko, Nev., both 2.9.


    By contrast, at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York, where TSA screened nearly 27 million passengers last year, there was a single passenger found to have a gun.Now there's a shocker. Gun-lovers avoid NY out of principle for one. But with an antigun climate and legislation, a gun owner would be playing Russian roulette. Oh, is hunting allowed in NYC?


    "There are some Americans who believe that there are no limits, that they not only have a constitutional but a God-given right to have a gun and 'By gosh, if I want to bring a gun on a plane I'm going to do it,'" said Spitzer, a professor at the State University of New York-Cortland. Really? That's what they say?


    TSA's count of guns intercepted doesn't include all the other kinds of prohibited "guns" that TSA screeners find, like flare guns, BB guns, air guns, spear guns, pellet guns and starter pistols. Of course they don't. Because now you'd be going down the list of general prohibited items. Do they count shampoo and tooth paste they confiscate too? Screeners find half a dozen to several dozen stun guns on passengers or in their carry-on bags each week. Last December, screeners stopped a passenger in Boston with seven stun guns in his bag. He said they were Christmas presents.And? The same week, screeners spotted 26 stun guns in the carry-on bag of a passenger at JFK. TSA has found several stun guns disguised as smartphones, and one that looked like a package of cigarettes.Sounds like cheap import items intended for sale at a novelty shop.


    Passengers are allowed to take guns with them when they fly, but only as checked baggage. They are required to fill out a form declaring the weapons and to carry them in a hard-sided bag with a lock.Why is this fact all the way down here at the bottom of the article?


    Most of those who are stopped with guns are reluctant to talk about it afterward.What kind of questions would you pose if they did want to talk? One who didn't mind was Raymond Whitehead, 53, of Santa Fe, N.M., who was arrested at Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey in May after screeners spotted 10 hollow-point bullets in his carry-on bag.I've got ammo at the bottom of y bag I use for carry-on as well. At the range last week I was unloading and I grabbed a box of ammo from thewrong end. The entire 50rd container fell out and spilled ammo into the bag. Whitehead, who is completely blind, also had a .38 caliber Charter Arms revolver in his checked bag that he had failed to declare. He said in an interview with the AP that he was unaware of the specifics of the rules for checking guns, or that hollow-point bullets are illegal in New Jersey.Well, the irony of a blind man not being able to see what in his bag aside, a firearm owner needs to know the laws that pertain to him & his activities. Does NJ provide the blind with a way to access law and information? You and I can browse the internet an state statutes. But a blind man cannot as easily. How would this man go about accessing the laws he needs?

    Whitehead acknowledged that it seems "counterintuitive" for a blind man to have a gun but said he keeps a loaded gun handy for protection from intruders. In such a situation, he said, he would call out a warning that he had a gun and spray bullets in the direction of the noise if the intruder didn't leave.That's is the stupidest phrasing ever. I commend the man for taking responsibility for protecting himself. But he has a lot of variables to consider and work around in order to do the most effect job he can as safely as possible.


    "I have five shots, and if I fan it out I'm going to hit you," said Whitehead, a National Rifle Association member who owns five guns.
    Not really. A bullet doesn't really "fan" out over an area. Essentially he hopes to pull the trigger and get lucky. Hope there are no bystanders around.
     

    stdreb27

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    Well at least it wasn't c-4.

    Pre- 9-11 I got to the airport with a package of bottle rockets in my back pack. (It was just after the 4th of July). I had no where to dump em, so I went to the handicap restroom dropped em in the sink. Let em soak then tossed em. In the handicap restroom. Then I got my bag swiped for explosives. I was a little worried because that bag (the day before) had been full of fireworks. But they didn't say anything.
     
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