My Gun Range near San Antonio

[M. Sage]

One little note on the "no handguns 'til 21" rule idea... If you sell handguns, it's not a bad idea to let 18 year olds bring their handguns out if they've got 'em. Why? 'Cause then they might buy their first brand new one from you.

...or from someone else that doesn't treat them like second-class shooters. Just sayin'.

 

[Nortex]

As to "knee jerk vitriol", I would say it's coming from you more than any other.

you are mistaken.

Responsible patrons are what make a range safe and my suggestion was intended to encourage more of that. RSO's can't catch everything and aren't always fast enough...having more RSO's won't change that.

The fact is all ranges have some form of restrictions. They can be in accordance with local/state/federal law or possibly more restrictive. You want the absolute minimum...great, your voice has been heard by Hillco Gunsmith.

If you sell handguns, it's not a bad idea to let 18 year olds bring their handguns out if they've got 'em. Why? 'Cause then they might buy their first brand new one from you....Just sayin'.

so profit should be the priority?

 

[M. Sage]

you are mistaken.

Responsible patrons are what make a range safe and my suggestion was intended to encourage more of that. RSO's can't catch everything and aren't always fast enough...having more RSO's won't change that.

The fact is all ranges have some form of restrictions. They can be in accordance with local/state/federal law or possibly more restrictive. You want the absolute minimum...great, your voice has been heard by Hillco Gunsmith.

Rules have less effect on range safety than the staff does by a loooooong way.

so profit should be the priority?

OK, seriously. Grownups are talking here. Shh. I mean, you've already made it plain that your idea of the world is that 18-20 year olds in legal possession of a handgun don't deserve a place to practice and become safe shooters. That's about all we need out of you in this thread.

 

[Nortex]

Rules have less effect on range safety than the staff does by a loooooong way.

depends what the rules/restrictions are. some of the safest and most well-run ranges I have been on had more stringent access requirements....and ZERO staff. Safe patrons go a lot further than staff.

OK, seriously. Grownups are talking here. Shh. I mean, you've already made it plain that your idea of the world is that 18-20 year olds in legal possession of a handgun don't deserve a place to practice and become safe shooters. That's about all we need out of you in this thread.

you spin my words, make false inferences, and now resort to ad hominem. Well done sir. So much for an armed society being a polite society.

 

[M. Sage]

you spin my words, make false inferences, and now resort to ad hominem. Well done sir. So much for an armed society being a polite society.

Hahaha, because that's not what you did to me first? Turnabout's fair play, homie.

The rules are only as good as the people who enforce them. A lot of range rules, for the sake of customer service, need to be flexible or else there won't be a range. Stupid rules that serve no purpose in making a range safer (like a 21 minimum age to bring a handgun) just drive business away and ensure that the only customers you might get are the crusty, bitter old bastards that make a range a miserable place to shoot.

You want safe patrons? It takes a good range staff to get that. It always comes back around to the staff.

 

[Nortex]

Hahaha, because that's not what you did to me first?

Not intentionally I didn't. You talking about my profit driving range policy question? That was an honest question because that's how your statement reads. I'm not trying to win some insult war...just trying to debate/discuss achieving a safer shooting experience at a potentially new range.

You want safe patrons? It takes a good range staff to get that. It always comes back around to the staff.

staff is important but not sure you read my last statement:

"depends what the rules/restrictions are. some of the safest and most well-run ranges I have been on had more stringent access requirements....and ZERO staff. Safe patrons (can) go a lot further than staff"

Not sure how big Hillco Gunsmith is trying to make his range, but I'd be very interested in a membership self-access / self-scheduled type of range where he vetts the members (Heck, he might not even allow me to join based on my stirring up the pot so much here). Such a range wouldn't even require a staff. And no, I wouldn't give a flying flip about the 19 year old man shooting his pop's 357 magnum a few lanes down.

 

[Younggun]

And no, I wouldn't give a flying flip about the 19 year old man shooting his pop's 357 magnum a few lanes down. [/COLOR]

If this is true, then why did you say this:

min age of 44 works for me

But seriously, are you looking to open as a self-serve membership operation or will the range be manned during hours of operation? (Kinda affects my answer).

Regardless, I like a policy of must be 21 or have a CHL for handguns.

Either way, I would rather have good RSOs than have to go off the assumption that everyone will be safe because no one under 40 is allowed on the range.

I'm still trying to understand how a range with no supervision could possible vet it's members with any degree of accuracy in determining their safety practices.

 

[M. Sage]

Such a range wouldn't even require a staff. And no, I wouldn't give a flying flip about the 19 year old man shooting his pop's 357 magnum a few lanes down.

What if it's his .357? Or Glock, or 1911? Because your statement about wanting a 21 or CHL rule for handguns suggested otherwise.

 

[Younggun]

Considering what I've seen on a CHL qualification, how does having a CHL even factor in to safety?

 

[Nortex]

If this is true, then why did you say this...

One example I gave was very specific regarding the shooter following a vetting process. The other would be a policy if no prior vetting occurred.

I'm still trying to understand how a range with no supervision could possible vet [sic] it's members with any degree of accuracy in determining their safety practices.

OK, no offense, but have you ever shot at some small town "private" unstaffed ranges? Everyone knows each other, people grow up learning how to shoot responsibly. It's a far safer shooting environment than many of the staffed ranges I have been to. That is the type of shooting environment I'm hopeful Hillco Gunsmith can achieve at his range out in the Hill Country, but again I freely recognize it's all his call and anything you or I say are merely suggestions.

Considering what I've seen on a CHL qualification, how does having a CHL even factor in to safety?

It screens for criminality and marginal safety. Yes, sadly, there are lots of unsafe CHL holders...

What if it's his .357? Or Glock, or 1911?

or maybe Glock will start making 1911's in .357. My example was caliber independent and yes, it could have been the gun his dad gave him.

Because your statement about wanting a 21 or CHL rule for handguns suggested otherwise.

no it didn't, read my response to younggun.


For heaven's sake fellas, you all seem very offended. We're all on the same side (I hope). Not trying to rip guns out of anyone's hands, just seen too many wanna-be thugs and ignorant shooters ruin range experiences. RSO's can only do so much. Maybe a combination of some vetting and a healthy education/training program at the same range could accomplish the desired effect.

Ah well, I'm off to my buddy's ranch to shoot some new .338 Lapua handloads...it's a 90 minute drive. Sure would be nice if this new closer Boerne Range would permit some 1000 yard shots.

 

[Younggun]

One example I gave was very specific regarding the shooter following a vetting process. The other would be a policy if no prior vetting occurred.
OK, no offense, but have you ever shot at some small town "private" unstaffed ranges? Everyone knows each other, people grow up learning how to shoot responsibly. It's a far safer shooting environment than many of the staffed ranges I have been to. That is the type of shooting environment I'm hopeful Hillco Gunsmith can achieve at his range out in the Hill Country, but again I freely recognize it's all his call and anything you or I say are merely suggestions.



AHHH, I see. You want a range where you only shoot with people you grew up with

It screens for criminality and marginal safety. Yes, sadly, there are lots of unsafe CHL holders...

The first part, yes. The second part, no it doesn't.

or maybe Glock will start making 1911's in .357. My example was caliber independent and yes, it could have been the gun his dad gave him.no it didn't, read my response to younggun.

Or he bought it himself.....not sure why it's hard for you to comprehend an 18y/o buying a hand gun.

For heaven's sake fellas, you all seem very offended. We're all on the same side (I hope). Not trying to rip guns out of anyone's hands, just seen too many wanna-be thugs and ignorant shooters ruin range experiences. RSO's can only do so much. Maybe a combination of some vetting and a healthy education/training program at the same range could accomplish the desired effect.

No, you are on a different side.

Ah well, I'm off to my buddy's ranch to shoot some new .338 Lapua handloads...it's a 90 minute drive. Sure would be nice if this new closer Boerne Range would permit some 1000 yard shots.

Nobody cares where you're going.

Every time you post something in support of your ridiculous opinion you sound even more foolish.

 

[Nortex]

Every time you post something in support of your ridiculous opinion you sound even more foolish.

Everytime you post you self-identify as having failed reading comprehension.

Tried to have a reasonable discussion, but you are out for a keyboard ninja battle.

OK, copy you are not on my side. Good to know, I'm sure the anti-gun folks will be happy to sign you up for their cause.

 

[mitchntx]

Everytime you post you self-identify as having failed reading comprehension.

Tried to have a reasonable discussion, but you are out for a keyboard ninja battle.

OK, copy you are not on my side. Good to know, I'm sure the anti-gun folks will be happy to sign you up for their cause.

There is no need for that kind of BS.

Grow up ... learn to accept criticism and move on.

This all started with a couple of us disagreeing with you and you just kept trying to convince folks that those who disagree are wrong and you are right. Has nothing to do with reading/comprehension.

An admin needs to lock this because the "discussion" is now simple chest thumping. It's degraded beyond repair.

 

[Nortex]

mitchntx, I agree. thread is completely counterproductive and should be shut down/erased (I just sent a note to the mods). OP Hillco Gunsmith deserves a better startup thread....see you on the flip side.

Grow up ... learn to accept criticism and move on.

yet here you are

 

[majormadmax]

What was the question again?!? :P

 

[mitchntx]

I'm exercising my ignore list. LOL

 

[Nortex]

I'm exercising my ignore list. LOL

test

 

[M. Sage]

OK, no offense, but have you ever shot at some small town "private" unstaffed ranges?

I have, and I've had people send rounds downrange while I was changing targets at them. That was in the day before I'd threaten to shoot someone over something like that, though.

or maybe Glock will start making 1911's in .357. My example was caliber independent and yes, it could have been the gun his dad gave him.no it didn't, read my response to younggun.

I wasn't commenting on caliber, the two things that caught my eye about what you said were "his dad's" and a reference to a revolver, which makes me think you're a bit "traditionalist" or to be blunt, a Fudd. At 19, that kid could very well have gone to a gun show (or a classified ad on here) and bought himself a GP100... or any other handgun.

For heaven's sake fellas, you all seem very offended. We're all on the same side (I hope). Not trying to rip guns out of anyone's hands, just seen too many wanna-be thugs and ignorant shooters ruin range experiences. RSO's can only do so much. Maybe a combination of some vetting and a healthy education/training program at the same range could accomplish the desired effect.

Do you let people like that ruin your range experience? I've spent a lot of time on a lot of public ranges and I've never let someone like that ruin my day. A few words is as far as I've had to go. Sometimes those words are loud and vulgar to get their attention and make my point, but they've always backed down and either left (and sometimes complained about me, LOL) or straightened up. Some of those people ended up shooting buddies once they figured out how not to make me yell at them.

 

[Nortex]

M Sage, dont know if we're gonna be the last two parties in this thread, or if it is gonna "get busy" again. Regardless, happy to discuss.

I have, and I've had people send rounds downrange while I was changing targets at them.

yikes. never had that happen. with multiple shooters on range, we always got verbal and eye contact with all parties agreeing that range was cold. whenever I shoot at my buddy's ranch (where I am now) there are sometimes several shooters. we have a blast and everyone is diligent about opening and clearing the action for all guns before stepping foot downrange....thankfully no one pulls any stunts like you have described.

That was in the day before I'd threaten to shoot someone over something like that, though.

I can understand your anger.

which makes me think you're a bit "traditionalist" or to be blunt, a Fudd. At 19, that kid could very well have gone to a gun show (or a classified ad on here) and bought himself a GP100... or any other handgun.

yes, I am aware of the law. Perhaps I am a traditionalist when it comes to gun safety, maybe even a Fudd. Been called worse. Also been told I was crazy by some comrades in a previous life.

Do you let people like that ruin your range experience? I've spent a lot of time on a lot of public ranges and I've never let someone like that ruin my day. A few words is as far as I've had to go. Sometimes those words are loud and vulgar to get their attention and make my point, but they've always backed down and either left (and sometimes complained about me, LOL) or straightened up. Some of those people ended up shooting buddies once they figured out how not to make me yell at them.

I pick my battles at ranges. If someone carelessly lases me I will move the heck out of the way and "say whoa brother." If they recognize their mistake and seem capable of not further endangering me then I will continue to shoot. If they cop attitude or seem completely oblivious I pack up and leave and tell the RSO or range office to keep an eye on them on my way out. I am not interested in getting into any heated verbal exchanges with range patrons. I guess I have enough other shooting options that it's just not worth it to me. I also always, always, always have my CCW on my person. If I am practicing with and/or reloading my primary CCW, then I am carrying my alternate. Paranoid? Perhaps. Still alive? Yes.

Anyway, I looked at Hillco Gunsmiths website
He looks to be operational and his current range looks to be 50 yards, a couple of berms, maybe 2-4 lanes. Says you have to email him to schedule range time.
"Range Fees $10/hr ea or $15/family of two/hr. Paper Targets not included. Instruction not included. just Safety Officer presence"

Based on the smallish scale, there is not much ability to have lots of guns/shooters on range at the same time. So much of the debate as it pertains to this current range is probably moot.