My thoughts on Rep. Weiner and discussion

[texas_teacher]

You can say that again! And this kind of employee is usually the one who bitches the loudest about when they get paid and why haven't they gotten a pay increase yet.

Exactly... People think our unemployment rate is bad now? Imagine what it would look like if we consolidated and fired the employees that weren't worth the chair they sat in for that respective company...

 

[TheDan]

do you think alcoholism is a disease?

Cancer is a disease, alcoholism is a choice.

If the picture was so pg-13 that it could be shown on tv then really necessary for resignation? Was the girl over 18? Yes. Then he didn't do anything "illegal", right?

It's not so much about what he did, as it is about his bold faced lies about it. I don't really think it's a sign of the times or anything else. There have been lying two-faced douchebags for all of time, and politics seems to attract them.

The positive part of this story is the public outcry from even the people that voted for him. I'm really glad people stood up and weren't going to tolerate him lying to them. I suspect if he had just admitted that was his crotch shot, and apologized for it, this all would have blown over quickly.

Clinton got impeached.

I always wondered what really happened with that. He was impeached... Then what? Nothing changed. He wasn't really held accountable for anything.

I think it's hilarious that Bill is apparently mad at him. Pot, meet kettle

 

[Clockwork]

I always wondered what really happened with that. He was impeached... Then what? Nothing changed. He wasn't really held accountable for anything.

Well, impeached doesn't mean removed from office. Because of that fact I've always kind of thought it seems like a slap on the wrist...

 

[just jk]

think of an impeachment by the house of representatives as an indictment by a grand jury

one that has to be prosecuted (in the senate)


if you believe that alcoholism isnt a disease, you're simply not educated on the topic....fact.

 

[TheDan]

if you believe that alcoholism isnt a disease, you're simply not educated on the topic....fact.

Female hysteria was a disease that was treated with vibrators. Just because the experts say it's so, doesn't mean it's fact. Please do not confuse practice, theories, and opinion with fact.

 

[matefrio]

I've had less than a beer's worth of alcohol my whole life and the main reason was my great grandfather was an alcoholic and I'm at high risk if I do drink of becoming one so I just don't drink. My father didn't drink and my grandfather didn't drink for the same reason. Yes, it was that bad.

So, I believe someone can be "at risk" or predisposed to certain addictions that lead to the destruction of their health, relationships, and social standing while someone else doesn't even have interest in the action.

I do blame him for taking the hook, He had a choice there and then the cover up.

The destruction of his relationships, and social standing are one of an addict who needed help though and he can't be effective in his post while hooked to that chain.

 

[just jk]

Female hysteria was a disease that was treated with vibrators. Just because the experts say it's so, doesn't mean it's fact. Please do not confuse practice, theories, and opinion with fact.

you base your opinion on the issue on what experience and education? or is this just a "lazy-boy armchair opinion"???

 

[Clockwork]

Alcoholism is a chemical dependancy. If that makes it a disease then so is being a meth addict or crackhead.

 

[Texas1911]

Alcoholism is a chemical dependancy. If that makes it a disease then so is being a meth addict or crackhead.

Technically everything is a chemical dependency, but I'd argue that alcoholism is a very selective disorder, but no more or less than developing lung cancer due to smoking.

 

[hercster]

First if I may , I'll comment on the addiction issue. I'm a recovering alcoholic sober for over 26 years. Before I found out I was alcoholic I didn't really recognize the role that alcohol played in the fact that I just didn't feel right for most of my life. To me at the time, alcohol was the solution as it made me feel better and allowed me to function and function very well. I won't debate the disease theory of addiction but I know I wasn't responsible for my alcoholism because I can now trace it back to the age of 16 and my first few drinks. So if you accept that I wasn't responsible for my addiction, I will tell you that once I found out and understood, I became 100% responsible for my recovery and that involves total abstinence in my case and millions of others. So in my opinion, Mr. Weiner had to know about the nature of his problem and therefore had 100% responsibility for his actions or inaction.

Now onto the bigger question addressed by some of the posters. Years ago, I corresponded with a scholar who focused on the rise and fall of societies as documented by history. At the time, he put forward the notion that America could cease to exist as a society within 50 or so years. I thought this was extreme and possibly ridiculous until he laid out his reasoning which was based on academic research on empires of the past including of course the Romans.

Here were some of the measures he used to make his points. Agree or disagree but give them some thought.

-Corruption and greed. This at the political, commerce and personal level. Clearly we can find many examples

-Loss of moral compass. Note the frequency of stories like Mr. Weiner's. They have become almost routine. A very large percentage of people said that they continue to support him. Another focus was a tendency to violence as entertainment. The Roman Gladiators were an example. How does that compare to the extreme "boxing" that draws thousands?

-An illusion of greatness and infallibility. Wars fought on foreign soil while the domestic scene crumbles.

-Loss of leadership in fundamental sectors including and notably education.

-Decay and eventual collapse of a previously strong economy.

I'm sure there were others but those are from my memory of about 10 years ago. We can all argue every one of those points but in doing so more truth might be brought to our collective thinking and possibly the trends can be slowed and then reversed.

I rest

 

[TheDan]

you base your opinion on the issue on what experience and education? or is this just a "lazy-boy armchair opinion"???

I've got lots of experience with family, friends, ex's, co-workers, etc. that drink too much, too often, and use being drunk as an excuse to be a jerk. I'm sure everyone knows at least one person like this. The only disease they suffer from is being chronic assholes.

How is it not a choice? You choose to pick up the first drink. You choose to keep drinking, and then hopefully at some point to choose to stop. Ultimately the individual has complete control. If you have muscular dystrophy, you can't choose to stop suffering from it.

I'm sorry if it offends your education or the experts you look up to, but I look at everything with a very healthy skepticism. Doctors and philosophers have been wrong way more than they've been right all through history.

 

[Clockwork]

I've got lots of experience with family, friends, ex's, co-workers, etc. that drink too much, too often, and use being drunk as an excuse to be a jerk. I'm sure everyone knows at least one person like this. The only disease they suffer from is being chronic assholes.

How is it not a choice? You choose to pick up the first drink. You choose to keep drinking, and then hopefully at some point to choose to stop. Ultimately the individual has complete control. If you have muscular dystrophy, you can't choose to stop suffering from it.

I'm sorry if it offends your education or the experts you look up to, but I look at everything with a very healthy skepticism. Doctors and philosophers have been wrong way more than they've been right all through history.

Yep. People who claim that their alcoholism is a disease are looking for a way to not take personal responsibility for their actions. "It's not my fault. I have a disease." No. What they have is a chemical dependancy because they lacked the willpower to simply say, "No."

 

[texas skeeter]

Yep. People who claim that their alcoholism is a disease are looking for a way to not take personal responsibility for their actions. "It's not my fault. I have a disease." No. What they have is a chemical dependancy because they lacked the willpower to simply say, "No."

X a Million on that CW!!

 

[lalonguecarabine]

I'm honestly surprised this is still being discussed.
It was never news for me!:

Another scumbag politician committed another scumbag deed, got caught, and manufactured lies upon lies to try and cover it up, all while shirking personal responsibility for said mis-deeds.

As sick as our society has become (as pointed out by numerous others in this very thread), we were surprised by this why?

 

[lalonguecarabine]

As far as ADHD, alcoholism, and the like are concerned - they are indeed legitimate conditions!
As to a large majority of the people who claim to have these conditions?: No so much so!
Clockwork's comment on over-diagnosis was spot on! Many people who are too lazy to accept responsibility for their failings often cook up an explanation involving legitimate diseases in an attempt to shirk the blame off of themselves. Sometimes, they get quack physicians to agree with them.

It doesn't mean that ADHD, alcoholism, and other diseases aren't real. And it is by no means my intent to marginalize them, or other serious medical or psychological conditions. Just remember that a lot of lazy people and people with no self control or discipline often try to blend in with them in an attempt to turn blame and anger at them into sympathy.

 

[hercster]

Alcoholism

I started drinking when I was 16 and got sober when I was 40. It was only during the process of getting sober that I realized I was alcoholic from the time I took the first drink. During my drinking career, I drank no more than most of my friends and acquaintances, rarely if ever got drunk and was super responsible. I was well educated, had a very good job, a family and never caused any problem of the usual nature as a result of my drinking. I didn't say no to the first beer mostly because I didn't know what was wrong with me.

At my very bitter end I was drinking 7/24. I could not go without a drink for two hours without going into the hell of withdrawel. I would crawl over broken glass to get a drink, I stole from my kids' piggy banks, I lied and cheated and went through the trash to find empty bottles I could redeem for pennies and buy a beer to stave off the pain for an hour or two. Withdrawel meant constant vomiting, insomnia for days, shaking everywhere and wanting to die. I did that about five times and yet still drank. Clearly I wanted more of the fun.

I could mention that my mother died of alcoholism and that just about every male on my father's side drank alcoholically. It took three treatment centres (rehabs) and four AA meetings a week to get me sober. Alcoholism means stepping over a very thin line that you can't see. Once on the other side you lose your ability to choose. If anyone thinks that an active alcoholic is having fun they are deluded. That whole weakness and will power argument is a myth. If it were just willpower, any alcoholic would stop the insanity immediately.

I guess you have to have been there.