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My wife doesn't care about neck vs full-length sizing .223/5.56 brass...

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  • MrWhip

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    Thank ya'll for the warm welcome to site. Like I mentioned in my introduction thread, I am new to reloading. I am a meticulous type, as I expect many other re-loaders are, and I enjoy reading up, getting feedback from others, and watching "internets" videos to learn.

    Like my post title indicated, "My wife doesn't care about neck vs full-length sizing .223/5.56 brass... " I tried. Apparently she loves me, but could care less about the topic.

    So I was researching neck vs full-length sizing and ran across a post by Erik Cortina (pro shooter) back in 2017. He had some very strong opinions on neck sizing and based on the response of many, he stirred up plenty of dissenting opinions. I didn't know what to conclude.

    I then watched another video by Erik Cortina from 2019. This video is a rebuttal to all those dissenting opinions and he made a rather convincing argument from my point of view. I'm just saying...

    If you have not seen these videos, watch them in order and I'd love to hear some feedback.

    2017 video



    2019 video

    Lynx Defense
     

    TxStetson

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    So, if your mind is already made up, what do you need from us?


    OK, in all seriousness, neck sizing is fine most of the time for a bolt action rifle. If the brass came from any other action, or another gun, or is of unknown origin it should be full length sized.

    Some people believe that you get better accuracy from only neck sizing because the case is already formed to your rifle’s chamber. Some people believe this isn’t the case. Honestly, I can’t tell the difference. I do believe your brass will last longer if you neck size because you’re working the brass less than full length sizing.

    Since you specifically asked about 223/5.56 I’m assuming you plan to shoot it from an AR, so definitely full length size.
     

    MrWhip

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    What kind of shooting are you doing?

    In .223/5.56, I shoot an AR/M4 Colt rig. My latest pursuit is talking shots well past 100 yards with an Aimpoint CCO alone, and with 3x flip magnification.

    I also play with pushing the limits on 9mm out of a carbine (Camp 9) for sh*ts and giggles.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    In .223/5.56, I shoot an AR/M4 Colt rig. My latest pursuit is talking shots well past 100 yards with an Aimpoint CCO alon,e and with 3x flip magnification.

    I also play with pushing the limits on 9mm out of a carbine (Camp 9) for sh*ts and giggles.

    Well, the 9mm ain’t gonna be an issue. And 100+yd shots out of a 5.56 ain’t either, without regard to your sizing method.

    If you want to wring out accuracy and have an 5.56 AR that can truly shoot sub-MOA out to 300+ yards, then it will make a difference over time.

    For plinking, it won’t make a shit of difference until you’ve worked the brass five or six times.
     

    Younggun

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    You want to full length size for the AR platform. You can still get plenty of accuracy out of it and far fewer feeding issues.


    Of course, someone will Neck size for their AR and say it’s all hogwash. Maybe they got a loose chamber.


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    Younggun

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    I doubt most people put enough time in to sorting and prepping brass to see an accuracy difference between neck and FL sizing.

    Have you sorted the cases by volume, shot the brass and sorted out any that result in a flyer or shot outside the group, sorted bullets by weight and length, uniformed the neck, etc, etc?

    There’s always a point of diminishing returns, but unless it’s a custom built target rifle I don’t think you will benefit from some of the more extreme steps. And I don’t think neck sizing will be worth the possible loss in reliability. Especially once it starts getting dirty.


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    MrWhip

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    Well, the 9mm ain’t gonna be an issue. And 100+yd shots out of a 5.56 ain’t either, without regard to your sizing method.

    If you want to wring out accuracy and have an 5.56 AR that can truly shoot sub-MOA out to 300+ yards, then it will make a difference over time.

    For plinking, it won’t make a shit of difference until you’ve worked the brass five or six times.

    I'd say for the last handful of years conducting rifle quals in the Army, I opted to not pull the trigger on those two 300 yard pop-up targets. Hitting them with pop-up sights after I turned 40 is definitely a NO GO, and hitting them with CCO has lately been a waste of a shot.

    I'm not quite ready to try for sub-MOA at 300+ yards with an AR. However, I would like to consistently hit that damn target shooting prone. I don't expect brass sizing methods will matter much in this, but that is where I am coming from.
     

    MrWhip

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    There’s always a point of diminishing returns, but unless it’s a custom built target rifle I don’t think you will benefit from some of the more extreme steps. And I don’t think neck sizing will be worth the possible loss in reliability. Especially once it starts getting dirty.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I agree.
     

    toddnjoyce

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    I'd say for the last handful of years conducting rifle quals in the Army, I opted to not pull the trigger on those two 300 yard pop-up targets. Hitting them with pop-up sights after I turned 40 is definitely a NO GO, and hitting them with CCO has lately been a waste of a shot.

    I'm not quite ready to try for sub-MOA at 300+ yards with an AR. However, I would like to consistently hit that damn target shooting prone. I don't expect brass sizing methods will matter much in this, but that is where I am coming from.

    Gotcha, I shot a ton of pop-ups both with and without the M68, ACOG, irons, and with goggles until I was in my early to mid-40s. Hitting the distant targets in any unsupported position can be challenging given the equipment proivded.

    If you’re using blue reloading equipment, the de-prime/sizing die is full-length.
     

    Deavis

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    Depends on the weapon and intended use.

    To add to this, depends on the shooter. Can you outshoot your ammo? If not, work on improving your shooting first and when you have matched your ammos accuracy, add a new step. Max it, rinse, and repeat. Then when you hit the limits of your gun, upgrade and start again. If you are like most of us mortals, you can't outshoot either your ammo, gun, or the combo these days because they are so damn good out of the box, assuming you aren't a turd at reloading!
     

    mad88minute

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    I have a custom built Remington 700
    Defiance action, lilja barrel, chambered in 260.

    I reload for accuracy and used to shoot it in precision rifle competitions.

    I didnt neck size, or full length. I would take a fire formed brass and bump the shoulder just a bit with these shell holders

    https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/35-competition-shellholder-sets


    And i would use an S bushing die to controll my neck tension.

    https://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/118-type-s-bushing-dies


    This wouldnt work well in a semi auto.


    Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
     

    mad88minute

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    Wait... you didnt neck size but you sized the neck? Lol, sorry man, I couldnt help myself. Bushing sizing is still sizing! :) :)
    I could have been more clear.
    I dont size just the neck.
    I also bump the shoulder, but not as much as a full length die.

    The bushing dies are pretty cool. You take.imto consideration your brass neck thickness and choose the right die to give adequate neck tension. You can really feel the difference in bushings when you seat the bullet.

    Sent from my moto e6 using Tapatalk
     

    9mmdave

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    I have seen significant accuracy improvement from neck turning and neck sizing for bolt guns. I have also tried neck turning and FL resizing for an AR. I didn't see much benefit from the neck turning in the AR but the rifle is very accurate to begin with - 0.5 MOA if I do my part.
     

    dee

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    Those guys interviewed in Erik's second video and Erik himself set plenty of records in pure accuracy doing the full length minimal bump that were previously held by nk only guys. They want things exactly the same every time and neck sizing will not allow for that.

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    Coop45

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    Hmmm! A wife without an opinion on a subject? Does she criticize your parking techniques? My wife thinks I should park within the lines. I might do that someday just for fun.
     

    rmantoo

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    I then watched another video by Erik Cortina from 2019. This video is a rebuttal to all those dissenting opinions and he made a rather convincing argument from my point of view. I'm just saying...

    One would probably run out of talent long before mechanical issues (neck vs full length, etc) limited their performance if they emulated Cortina's methods.

    I watched those videos, the first time most likely within several days of when each was originally posted. I met Erik several times between 2013 and 2016 when I was much more active in 3gun and researching and watching several PRS matches, trying to decide if I was going down that particular rabbit hole. He is one of the sharpest guys I've ever met, and that's saying something, because I think a LOT of myself :)

    We are really blessed in Texas, imho, in that almost none of our champion-level shooters, in almost any of the disciplines, are jerks (although I know NOTHING about skeet/trap/etc people). They're almost all extremely nice guys. Erik is likewise one of the nicest guys you're likely to encounter, too.

    In bolt guns, 100% run the way Erik does.

    As others have said, for semi-autos, you pretty much have to size the entire case- IF it's an interference-ejection style, like an AR where the case hits the deflector behind the ejections port, because when it hits that and dents the case, it likewise bulges the edges of that deflector-line... Of course, if one has an AR that, somehow, doesn't slam the case into the deflector, then I'd only neck-size, too.
     
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