Nelson Mandela: Good riddance!

[stdreb27]

So other than Internet chat rooms, anyone have any good sources for information hell even mild criticism for this guy.

 

[Andy]

Having grown up in South Africa since I was 10 and actually served my mandatory National Service in the SADF as a 2nd lieutenant during what we called the Bush War, I can say that the situation there was.... complicated.

One the one hand apartheid was evil, sure - but not any more than had been seen here in the US. Both countries (and more) were hampered by the history of colonial policies, slavery and racism - the US had simply made a bit more progress in terms of human rights a bit quicker.

On the other side, the Communist-aligned MK (Umkhonto we Sizwe, the ANC's armed wing), APLA (the PAC's armed wing), SWAPO, etc to my mind were diabolically evil - not because they wanted freedom (something with which I could actually empathize), but because they willingly killed and mutilated innocents, often with African savagery - think babies with all four limbs hacked off with pangas (machetes), pregnant women slit open and forced onto sharp stakes, etc, etc.

A situation not easily-resolved as there were huge, legitimate grievances and concerns on both sides. I grew up viewing Mandela in the same light as the typical American would view Castro - a barbaric Communist.

Once Mandela was released, he put away the spear - a gesture so generous that it still blows my mind. That one act defused tensions so dramatically that it allowed a new society the chance to develop. It's still fragile - many grudges and hatreds burn in criminal and political hearts but without Mandela I'm convinced beyond any doubt whatsoever that the "New South Africa" would have been still-born, strangled on its own blood. I can't forgive his past actions any more than he would have mine, but for that massive generosity of spirit he has my genuine gratitude and respect.

 

[cbigclarke]

^^^ that's the story I've been hearing

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[zx9rt1]

I wish Morgan was dead instead of Mandela

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

What's the back story on Morgan?

 

[cbigclarke]

What's the back story on Morgan?

he's on that band wagon of "it's because he's black"..

Many years ago he said some nutty shit about blacks wanted to get on the boats during slavery.

Yeah.. they were standing in there Sunday best, on the docks with there tickets in hand (my words, not his)

 

[zx9rt1]

Thanks.

 

[stdreb27]

Having grown up in South Africa since I was 10 and actually served my mandatory National Service in the SADF as a 2nd lieutenant during what we called the Bush War, I can say that the situation there was.... complicated.

One the one hand apartheid was evil, sure - but not any more than had been seen here in the US. Both countries (and more) were hampered by the history of colonial policies, slavery and racism - the US had simply made a bit more progress in terms of human rights a bit quicker.

On the other side, the Communist-aligned MK (Umkhonto we Sizwe, the ANC's armed wing), APLA (the PAC's armed wing), SWAPO, etc to my mind were diabolically evil - not because they wanted freedom (something with which I could actually empathize), but because they willingly killed and mutilated innocents, often with African savagery - think babies with all four limbs hacked off with pangas (machetes), pregnant women slit open and forced onto sharp stakes, etc, etc.

A situation not easily-resolved as there were huge, legitimate grievances and concerns on both sides. I grew up viewing Mandela in the same light as the typical American would view Castro - a barbaric Communist.

Once Mandela was released, he put away the spear - a gesture so generous that it still blows my mind. That one act defused tensions so dramatically that it allowed a new society the chance to develop. It's still fragile - many grudges and hatreds burn in criminal and political hearts but without Mandela I'm convinced beyond any doubt whatsoever that the "New South Africa" would have been still-born, strangled on its own blood. I can't forgive his past actions any more than he would have mine, but for that massive generosity of spirit he has my genuine gratitude and respect.

This is what I don't get. My sis in law's entire family literally fled the country when it became clear who would win the election. Out of fear for their lives.
Yet the heap praise on the guy .

 

[hellishhorses]

Having grown up in South Africa since I was 10 and actually served my mandatory National Service in the SADF as a 2nd lieutenant during what we called the Bush War, I can say that the situation there was.... complicated.

One the one hand apartheid was evil, sure - but not any more than had been seen here in the US. Both countries (and more) were hampered by the history of colonial policies, slavery and racism - the US had simply made a bit more progress in terms of human rights a bit quicker.

On the other side, the Communist-aligned MK (Umkhonto we Sizwe, the ANC's armed wing), APLA (the PAC's armed wing), SWAPO, etc to my mind were diabolically evil - not because they wanted freedom (something with which I could actually empathize), but because they willingly killed and mutilated innocents, often with African savagery - think babies with all four limbs hacked off with pangas (machetes), pregnant women slit open and forced onto sharp stakes, etc, etc.

A situation not easily-resolved as there were huge, legitimate grievances and concerns on both sides. I grew up viewing Mandela in the same light as the typical American would view Castro - a barbaric Communist.

Once Mandela was released, he put away the spear - a gesture so generous that it still blows my mind. That one act defused tensions so dramatically that it allowed a new society the chance to develop. It's still fragile - many grudges and hatreds burn in criminal and political hearts but without Mandela I'm convinced beyond any doubt whatsoever that the "New South Africa" would have been still-born, strangled on its own blood. I can't forgive his past actions any more than he would have mine, but for that massive generosity of spirit he has my genuine gratitude and respect.

Some may call it generosity, I call it campaign strategy.

 

[Andy]

Long campaign, then - he was released in 1990 and became president in 1994, almost 20 years ago.

 

[Sapper740]

So other than Internet chat rooms, anyone have any good sources for information hell even mild criticism for this guy.

Yup, call Culligan water in Dallas and ask for Johan.

 

[hellishhorses]

Long campaign, then - he was released in 1990 and became president in 1994, almost 20 years ago.

Not really, most presidential candidates I've known start their campaign several years ahead of time. Especially if there are skeletons in their closet that could potentially bring a black cloud on them. A four-year campaign isn't unheard of.
I'm not saying it's impossible for him to turn over a new leaf in prison or that he wasn't initially a passive, anti-violence activist outnumbered by the guerillas that surrounded him, but "you're only as good as the company you keep" comes to mind. He didn't do much to stop that violence, some might say he even promoted it.

 

[PhulesAu]

He was a hero, just like the sign language interpreter.

 

[zx9rt1]

He was a hero, just like the sign language interpreter.

 

[Sapper740]

Our esteemed Buffoon-in-Chief has joined with an elite group: Millenials, who have taken "selfies" at a funeral. Selfies at Funerals God I am so sick of this idiot. I know it's a crime to threaten to assassinate the President, is it a crime to wish that someone else has finally had enough?

 

[stdreb27]

Yup, call Culligan water in Dallas and ask for Johan.

It was a serious question, anyone so universally loved and adored by the left has to be bad, but I spent an hour trying to google crap about him and didn't find anything...

 

[Sapper740]

It was a serious question, anyone so universally loved and adored by the left has to be bad, but I spent an hour trying to google crap about him and didn't find anything...

It was a serious answer. Johan is an ex-pat Afrikaaner who left the violence behind to come to the U.S. He delivers the de-ionizing cartridges for our steam injection humidifiers at our facility. We last talked about Mandela on Monday when I asked him his opinion of the man. Further, I'm old enough to remember the news casts from Mandela's terrorist days and how his followers in the ANC fought, hacked, slashed, and necklaced their Zulu opponents. I have no quarrel with a man or people fighting for self-determination, just their methods. Mandela was offered early release from prison during the Reagan era...all he had to do was renounce violence which he refused to do, thus lengthening his stay in prison. It's a sad comment on our society today that you can't find the truth any more about a darling of the Left. Can you imagine what they'll be saying about Obama in 2-3 decades?

 

[Sapper740]

He was a hero, just like the sign language interpreter.

It turns out the sign language interpreter is a violent schizophrenic who missed his bi-annual mental health check-up to "perform" at the funeral. He stated that his signing was off due to being distracted by the "voices in his head". I'm not making this shit up, see here: Sign language interpreter for Mandela memorial says he was hallucinating, often becomes 'violent' | Fox News