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New guy, new carrier (applied), concerns

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  • soundsmith

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    Jun 7, 2016
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    Hello everyone. My name is Mike, I live in San Antonio. Recently something came up and I decided to finally take the class and submit the app to the state in the last few days, now the wait begins. I'm not worried about the wait though, it's got nothing compared to NFA items haha...

    So I have a couple of things on my mind and I'm hoping to get some opinions and experiences that could help me out. First of all, Glock RTF texture on my 23.4 chews me up after a short bit (wearing around the house ITB in a kydex holster). I've been thinking about one of those wraps for the grip to make it less abrasive. I don't want to modify the actual polymer in case I decide to sell the gun later, but I don't see myself carrying often if my side has a grip burn every time I do. Undershirts are really uncomfortable for me, plus I don't know how people do it in South Texas weather anyway. Can anyone point me towards some good solutions? I've been thinking about picking up a Glock 43 (which seems to have less abrasive texture), but also maybe a Sig P320 compact. I really like my 23 and I have the bigger 22 for nightstand duty, but I'm not married to Glock or .40 by any means. So I need either a way to make the 23 comfortable or just a different gun altogether. Since I already have the 23 it would be ideal to figure out a way to carry it, but I'm also not going to complain about increasing the collection :)

    The other thing I have been thinking about since taking the class is the legal ramifications when/if I have to draw and fire. I knew about it before, but the class and application makes it more real, if that makes any sense, so it kind of hit me a little harder. I see people talking about the different services like TLS, or the NRA's insurance, which seem to be a good idea to have. But I have also heard that these things can help as much as they can hurt when it comes to a prosecutor in civil litigation. By that I mean, as we already know they will try to use anything they can to paint the picture that you are an irresponsible gun owner hell-bent on shooting someone. I have heard some opinions that having any of these "insurance" policies can be construed as premeditated. At the same time, I, and most people, don't have the money to retain a lawyer in the unlikely event of a self-defense shooting. Which is another question I have which is, couldn't you just hire a lawyer when something does happen? It seems as though you either need one of these services or a lawyer on retainer beforehand or you are screwed, at least that is the impression I am getting. I'm really hoping someone can enlighten me on this. I'm confident enough in myself and my understanding that if I were ever in a situation that called for drawing and firing, I would be well within the law, what concerns me is civil litigation afterwards.

    I think I had more but this one is long-winded enough for now.
     

    Mreed911

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    Hello everyone. My name is Mike, I live in San Antonio.

    Welcome to TGT!

    First of all, Glock RTF texture on my 23.4 chews me up after a short bit (wearing around the house ITB in a kydex holster). I've been thinking about one of those wraps for the grip to make it less abrasive. I don't want to modify the actual polymer in case I decide to sell the gun later, but I don't see myself carrying often if my side has a grip burn every time I do. Undershirts are really uncomfortable for me, plus I don't know how people do it in South Texas weather anyway. Can anyone point me towards some good solutions?

    Have you thought about switching to OWB, or a different cant in your iWB holster? What holster are you using? Does it have a full "inside" piece between the pistol and your body to prevent rubbing? Look at something like an AlienGear or Corssbreed - lots of options out there that should protect you and the gun from being in contact.

    I've been thinking about picking up a Glock 43 (which seems to have less abrasive texture), but also maybe a Sig P320 compact. I really like my 23 and I have the bigger 22 for nightstand duty, but I'm not married to Glock or .40 by any means. So I need either a way to make the 23 comfortable or just a different gun altogether. Since I already have the 23 it would be ideal to figure out a way to carry it, but I'm also not going to complain about increasing the collection

    It's easier to stay in the same family, especially with mag interchangeability. Nothing wrong with the Glock 43, that's for sure, but I think a different holster as noted above might help.

    The other thing I have been thinking about since taking the class is the legal ramifications when/if I have to draw and fire. I knew about it before, but the class and application makes it more real, if that makes any sense, so it kind of hit me a little harder. I see people talking about the different services like TLS, or the NRA's insurance, which seem to be a good idea to have. But I have also heard that these things can help as much as they can hurt when it comes to a prosecutor in civil litigation. By that I mean, as we already know they will try to use anything they can to paint the picture that you are an irresponsible gun owner hell-bent on shooting someone. I have heard some opinions that having any of these "insurance" policies can be construed as premeditated. At the same time, I, and most people, don't have the money to retain a lawyer in the unlikely event of a self-defense shooting. Which is another question I have which is, couldn't you just hire a lawyer when something does happen? It seems as though you either need one of these services or a lawyer on retainer beforehand or you are screwed, at least that is the impression I am getting. I'm really hoping someone can enlighten me on this. I'm confident enough in myself and my understanding that if I were ever in a situation that called for drawing and firing, I would be well within the law, what concerns me is civil litigation afterwards.

    Think of it this way - do you really want to be worrying about finding, vetting and hiring a lawyer AFTER you've been involved in a shooting or would you rather have a service or person on call, immediately, that can start the process of bail, bond, protecting your rights during attempted interrogations, etc? There's a much longer discussion in progress elsewhere on the board about criminal vs. civil proceedings, civil immunity, etc., but the best option is to know what you might need before you need it. I'm currently a TLS member and they offer free seminars to everyone, not just TLS members, but also free legal consults to members with questions. I'm considering switching to CCW Safe but I'm still investigating them. Others are out there, but my main concern is criminal. In a criminal proceeding, that process is going to start within minutes of me having to pull a weapon, pull the trigger, etc. Minutes. Under high stress. Where everything I say could be used against me, right or wrong, and my intent inferred by someone who wasn't there when it happened. Civilly, at least, I'm going to get served and have a future date to start worrying about things. I have more time, my freedom isn't at risk, and nobody is trying to interrogate me as they hand me papers.

    You should be more worried about the criminal side - even if you're right, you may very well end up in a situation where you have to PROVE you were right - for that, you need someone on your side from minute 1, and need to understand what to and not to say. You may be arrested, depending on the circumstances. You might have to post LARGE bail, meaning you might be in custody for a few days (or if it happens over a weekend, same thing). The police are going to want to question you, everything you say to ANYONE can be used against you, and you'll be under severe, continuing mental stress (arrested for murder, incarcerated, etc.). Not a good time to have to worry about finding a lawyer.

    Just my opinion... but shows my order of priorities. Like you, I don't expect to ever use a weapon not being "in the right," but I also know just how arguable that can be.
     
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    oldag

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    If you have to shoot, your choice is dying (or a loved one dying) or facing possible legal ramifications. You have to decide which is the better option.

    Regarding insurance plans, I do not recommend the ones where they will provide you with a lawyer when you call. Good lawyers do not participate in these type plans. The ones who do participate are those who cannot scrape enough income from their regular practice. If you are in the situation of needing an attorney, the stakes are too high. Pay the bucks and get an excellent attorney. Even if you have to borrow money to do so.
     

    Mreed911

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    OldAg - have you looked at CCWSafe? Curious, not endorsing them.

    There's nothing that says you can't have more than one attorney. Having someone on call, initially, seems to be the biggest benefit. You can add a chosen attorney (or replace your CCWSafe attorney, perhaps at a loss of benefits/coverage, but your choice) later if you feel the need.
     

    locke_n_load

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    If you are going to run an inside the waistband holster, you definitely want one that keeps all of the pistol away from your skin, like Mike said. That will solve your grip/abrasive issue with your glock.

    I run a Gen 4 Glock 26 (very aggressive grip pattern), and can wear it all day because no part of the gun is touching my hip/side. There is a nice leather/padded section that keeps the grip off of me. It is a Nate squared (company made by two guys named Nate) holster, but there are a ton of other good options out there.
     

    majormadmax

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    Aug 27, 2009
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    San Antonio!
    Lots of great holsters out there that will solve your problem, I recommend Tucker and Byrd...

    https://www.tuckerandbyrd.com/

    And I agree with oldag on this one, if the unlikely event that you need a lawyer I would rather pick the best one I could find than be given one from a pool of unknowns. Sure, it may cost more in the long run (but I am not honestly sure of that); but at that point money should be the least of your concerns. If anything, do your research now and have the contact info handy if you ever need it. That's be better than scrambling to find one after a use-of-force situation.

    Oh, and my name is also Mike, and I am also from San Antonio... :D

    Cheers! M2
     

    soundsmith

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    Jun 7, 2016
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    Wow, great responses. You guys have cleared some things up for me and given me more to think about. I'm liking the Nate Squared holsters, I'll probably replace what I have now with one of their Professionals so thank you for the recommendation. My current holster is basically identical to something like the Incog Eclipse. Kydex on the body side covers the slide, but that is all, the grip of the gun is completely exposed to skin and that's what the issue is. Minimal, as I've learned with this one, is apparently not the way to go with grip textures like on gen4 Glocks.

    If I'm being honest, I haven't researched any of the services like TLS, et al so I have no idea what they cost. I'll look into them, it seems like a good idea, and I will definitely at the very least research the lawyers here to see which one I should call if needed in the event I need one in the future. Great points.
     

    txinvestigator

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    If you have to shoot, your choice is dying (or a loved one dying) or facing possible legal ramifications. You have to decide which is the better option.

    Regarding insurance plans, I do not recommend the ones where they will provide you with a lawyer when you call. Good lawyers do not participate in these type plans. The ones who do participate are those who cannot scrape enough income from their regular practice. If you are in the situation of needing an attorney, the stakes are too high. Pay the bucks and get an excellent attorney. Even if you have to borrow money to do so.
    Disagree 100% with your second paragraph. What evidence do you have that "good lawyers do not participate in these plans"? What evidence do you have about scraping enough income? Where would you suggest one who was just involved in a shooting " borrow money"?
     

    Thegomezclan

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    OldAg - have you looked at CCWSafe? Curious, not endorsing them.

    There's nothing that says you can't have more than one attorney. Having someone on call, initially, seems to be the biggest benefit. You can add a chosen attorney (or replace your CCWSafe attorney, perhaps at a loss of benefits/coverage, but your choice) later if you feel the need.



    I skimmed over what they cover and it looks to me that if open carry and you have to use your weapon they won't help you. Maybe I missed something?
     

    JD9305

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    Feb 4, 2016
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    Welcome to tgt!

    My daily carry differs from week to week but one thing that does not is the alien gear holsters that I use. I have a iwb and owb for the glock 43 and like both although you will need a baggy shirt to cover the owb because the holster does stick out quite a bit. I also carry a kimber solo carry in the alien gear holster....both guns are about the same size and I can wear them in the heat with no worries.
     

    Mreed911

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    I skimmed over what they cover and it looks to me that if open carry and you have to use your weapon they won't help you. Maybe I missed something?

    I didn't see that but I did see that if you carry past of 30.06 sign and end up in a shooting you won't be covered because it wasn't a place you're legally allowed to carry.
     

    lennie

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    Have met several TLS lawyers and they know their stuff. Talk to them.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    ZX9RCAM

    Over the Rainbow bridge...
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    Have met several TLS lawyers and they know their stuff. Talk to them.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    How would somebody like myself know that they "knew their stuff"?
    They could BS me all day long & I wouldn't know the whether it was correct or not.
     

    Mreed911

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    Have met several TLS lawyers and they know their stuff. Talk to them.

    Are they good trial lawyers, though? Experienced in the local criminal courts, with the local prosecutor, etc.? Curious, not attacking.

    How would somebody like myself know that they "knew their stuff"?
    They could BS me all day long & I wouldn't know the whether it was correct or not.

    Maybe. TLS is supposedly in the business of providing good coverage, though, to attract customers. It's not like there's no competition.
     

    Polarbear6

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    Comparison chart from the CCW Safe website. Don't know how accurate this is.

    Screen-Shot-2014-03-06-at-1.30.37-PM.png
     
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    Polarbear6

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    I skimmed over what they cover and it looks to me that if open carry and you have to use your weapon they won't help you. Maybe I missed something?

    I didn't come away with that impression when reading their Terms of Service. However, I sent them an e-mail this morning asking them for clarification on this question. Hopefully I'll get a reply soon.
     
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