non-CHL carry in car

[SIG-SOG]

So it is apparently legal to carry a gun in your car, not in plain view. But under what circumstances can you legally use it for self protection? Only while in the vehicle? Seems like then you would run into lots of legal issues if you used your pistol for self defense - like why didn't you just drive away, etc. Also, lets say you pull into the parking lot of a store and your wife runs in to pick up something and you see that she walks into the middle of a hold up or is being asaulted. Can you then leave car and shoot to protect her?

Is there really any advantage to carrying in your car?

 

[Sheriff10]

This is a question that I have also wondered about. C'mon you smarter guys than me. What's the deal?

 

[txinvestigator]

This is a question that I have also wondered about. C'mon you smarter guys than me. What's the deal?

The "deal" is; having a chl gives you no more legal authority to use deadly force than someone without.

 

[txinvestigator]

So it is apparently legal to carry a gun in your car, not in plain view. But under what circumstances can you legally use it for self protection? Only while in the vehicle?

I am a CHL instructor, and I don't feel like repeating this for the umpteenth time, so you will just have to take my word for it; If you are justified in using deadly force it matters not if you have a CHL, if you are in a car, or anything.

Seems like then you would run into lots of legal issues if you used your pistol for self defense - like why didn't you just drive away, etc.

No more than you would if you HAD a CHL, or if you use deadly force for ANY reason.

Also, lets say you pull into the parking lot of a store and your wife runs in to pick up something and you see that she walks into the middle of a hold up or is being asaulted. Can you then leave car and shoot to protect her?

It depends. Penal Code Chapter 9( Texas' Use of Force Laws) takes me a minimum of 2 hours to teach in a CHL class, and that barely gives one a working knowledge. The question, as presented, is too vague to even to attempt an answer. However, not having a CHL is irrelevant.

Is there really any advantage to carrying in your car?

In my car, yes. In yours? Only YOU can answer that.



Using deadly force has nothing to do with the type of weapon, or even if you used one. It matters not if you are in your car, in a boat, on the street, or carrying a jar.

 

[SIG-SOG]

Understand, but the point of my post was more about being confined to using firearm only in the car, not outside of it. With CHL, one could be anyway (where legal to carry of course). That was the distinction I was trying to make. But then, maybe I'm just missing the point. By the way, I bought my first ever hand gun a few weeks ago, so all of this is new to me. Just trying to learn and understand. Thanks for the replies.

 

[txinvestigator]

Understand, but the point of my post was more about being confined to using firearm only in the car, not outside of it.

As I said, it matters not if you are "in" the car or not. Where you can legally carry has nothing to do with where you can use deadly force.

Using a handgun to shoot someone is a felony, unless you are justified under the self-defense laws. (for those of you who wish to argue that fine point, I am simplifying for the sake of explanation). Carrying a handgun out of your car while not licensed is a misdemeanor (unless where alcohol is sold). They are separate. While technically, if you entered a store with a handgun but without a CHL to defend your wife you could be charged with unlawful carrying a weapon, that fact does not change whether or not you would be justified in any use of deadly force.

And there is a defense for carrying without a CHL in the store under proper circumstances. Again, it is too complicated to explain here.


Help at all?

 

[TexasRedneck]

...and guys - if you're going to even CONSIDER carrying under ANY circumstances, then you need to take the time to read and STUDY the law (V.A.C.S. - Vernon's Annoited Civil Statutes) and understand just how they pertain and apply to you. Because if you do it wrong "That's what they told me on the internet!!" will NOT help ya!

 

[txinvestigator]

Just the Penal Code would suffice.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

+1! Agreed!

I have seen that there are a lot of very knowledgeable people on this site, and that would possibly make one think that looking here is the answer to any firearm related questions they may have. While that may be generally true, you're going to have to caution yourself against seeking legal advice anywhere outside of a law office.
As said above, "they told me on the internet" is not going to help you while you're on trial for god knows what kind of charges this gun fearing society dreams up for you - justified or not!

And you are completely correct about just driving away. If find yourself in a bad situation, and you can just drive out of there, then do that. End of discussion!

Finally, you asked about the advantage of having your weapon in your vehicle at all. Well, you will hopefully never need it, and it will hopefully never be fired outside of the shooting range. But if the time comes when you do need it - you will really need it. Just like the smoke alarms at your house. How many times have you needed a smoke alarm so far in your lifetime? It's one of those things that is there for when needed, and that's it. So keep your weapon in your car, train with it often, and for god sakes, keep it in good working order!

 

[SIG-SOG]

Thanks for the responses and advice. I have not taken a class to get a chl license yet, and in the meantime have no plans to carry a gun in my car except between home and the gun range. What really prompted my questions about carrying a gun in a car was by reading some other posts on the topic (at least similar). I was really curious if people have really thought thoroughly about the issues and how they might react in a given situation (like the example I gave about wife in a store being assaulted). I also read a lot of posts about people carrying these assisted opening knives, which are illegal(?) in Texas. Would I go up against some kid raised on the streets with a knife in his hands just because I had a knife on me? don't think so, I get the heck away if possible, and only do anything if my life was really on the line. Same with a gun. Last resort.

 

[Major Woody]

I suggest calling 911 first to report, go get your wife, and if the perp points it toward you and yours defend yourself.

 

[Chupacabra Hunter]

Outside of your home.....i think i would be safe to say that use of deadly force is only the last resort if you felt you or yours is threatened with your lives.

 

[lalonguecarabine]

Well, I'll jump back into Marine Corps guard doctrine on this one:

"Deadly force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity, and only as a last resort, when all lesser means have failed or can no longer be reasonably employed."

We keep things so simple! atriot:

 

[sixguncowboy]

Use of deadly force is justified only if your life or the life of another is in immediate danger. In the scenario you described, is your wife's life in immediate danger? You don't give enough detail.

Whether you are inside your car or outside of it is irrevelant. You do not have to have a CHL in Texas to defend your life, the life of another or protect your property. Under the castle doctrine law you are under no obligation to retreat regardless of where you are.

Several years ago a young man here in town was on his way home from the shooting range. He had a 44 mag in his car and saw a man beating a woman outside a laundromat in a strip mall. Long story short, he pulled in, got out of his car and ordered the man to stop beating the woman. When the man kept on beating the woman after being ordered several more times to stop, the good samaritan shot him once, fatally wounding him. Turns out the assailant was strung out on meth. The good sam was no billed by the Grand Jury.

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

Use of deadly force is justified only if your life or the life of another is in immediate danger.

That's not necessarily true. Texas Penal Code Chapter 9 details several instances in which deadly force is justified (or the actor's belief that the deadly force was justified is presumed reasonable) without testing for a reasonable and immediate fear for your life or the life of a third person.

 

[txinvestigator]

That's not necessarily true. Texas Penal Code Chapter 9 details several instances in which deadly force is justified (or the actor's belief that the deadly force was justified is presumed reasonable) without testing for a reasonable and immediate fear for your life or the life of a third person.

In fact, your life "being in danger" is not a justification for using deadly force. Neither is "being in fear of your life" or "being afraid for your life."

Chapter 9 lists "to prevent the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force" as the justification. While you might feel in fear of your life if someone is using or attempting to use unlawful deadly force against you, that is NOT your justification.

For example, if you ever ride in the car with my sister you WILL be afraid for your life, but you are not justified in shooting her.

 

[txinvestigator]

Under the castle doctrine law you are under no obligation to retreat regardless of where you are.

Minor correction; if you at at a place you have a legal right to be, there is no duty to retreat and a court may not consider if you attempted to retreat.


Also see the corrections to the "fear of your life" fallacy.

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

In fact, your life "being in danger" is not a justification for using deadly force. Neither is "being in fear of your life" or "being afraid for your life."

Chapter 9 lists "to prevent the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force" as the justification. While you might feel in fear of your life if someone is using or attempting to use unlawful deadly force against you, that is NOT your justification.

For example, if you ever ride in the car with my sister you WILL be afraid for your life, but you are not justified in shooting her.

Exactly. The use of "unlawful deadly force" suggests that one might fear for their life, but the fear alone is too subjective to use as criteria for shooting someone. On the other hand, you should always be able to articulate a reasonable and immediate fear for your life or the life of a third person, because the law comes down to people, and people want to know you were skeered!

 

[Burt Gummer]

See all above posted by txinvestigator.

A CHL gives you authority to carry concealed, nothing extra for use of force.

Use lethal force to save a life. Though legal I am not a fan of using it to protect property. It is a crap shoot with a grand jury and at your imminent civil trial.

 

[jsimmons]

For example, if you ever ride in the car with my sister you WILL be afraid for your life, but you are not justified in shooting her.

I can tell that you've never met my sister...