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  • Cory S.

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    Does anyone know of any churches in the Dallas/Fort Worth area that will allow congregation members to open-carry on church grounds and/or inside the sanctuary? On the flip-side, does anyone belong to a church that has decided NOT to allow their members to open-carry?
     

    motorcarman

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    I went to a Funeral at a church a few months ago and I carried (concealed). I did not see any signs so I just walked in and sat down with the rest of the local mourners.

    bob
     
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    vmax

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    my church has never posted and will not post Jan 1 but we will not allow OC come Jan 1
    we will notify verbally

    open carrying a gun in church falls under the category of "just because you can doesn't mean you ought to"
     

    txinvestigator

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    my church has never posted and will not post Jan 1 but we will not allow OC come Jan 1
    we will notify verbally

    open carrying a gun in church falls under the category of "just because you can doesn't mean you ought to"
    Good enough for the mall but not church? Really?
     

    vmax

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    Good enough for the mall but not church? Really?

    yeah...pretty much. I don't go to the mall to worship The Lord. See the difference there? nah, didn't think you would.

    why would you want to OC in a church when you could CC?

    We have lots of older folks, some of them might be uncomfortable with seeing it in a place of sanctuary.

    It would be a distraction for a lot of people. The worship service is about giving your full attention to God. We want to discourage distractions so that the sanctuary is a comfortable, inviting place for all people so come and devote that time to The Lord

    We ask people to mute their cell phones for the exact reason we won't allow OC. We ask that people please use the nursery if you have a small child that is crying loudly for the same reason. If someone walks in OCing a gun we are going to ask them to please conceal it, that's all.


    I will OC lots of places but I would not OC in a church out of respect for God and other people there, I wouldn't even consider it because it could cause some other person, who came there to worship to be distracted.
    sorry if you don't get that

    lots of men CC in our church each Sunday. If a person comes through the door yelling Aloha Clark Bar and pulls out an AK, he will probly get shot in the face by a red blooded American man.
     
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    txinvestigator

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    yeah...pretty much. I don't go to the mall to worship The Lord. See the difference there? nah, didn't think you would.
    Really? Attack my faith? How Christian of you. And what does worship have to do with carry?

    why would you want to OC in a church when you could CC?
    I won't OC anywhere. Do you feel the same about the mall?

    We have lots of older folks, some of them might be uncomfortable with seeing it in a place of sanctuary.
    And if one of those SAME older folks were to be uncomfortable seeing it at the mall, **** em there?

    It would be a distraction for a lot of people. The worship service is about giving your full attention to God. We want to discourage distractions so that the sanctuary is a comfortable, inviting place for all people so come and devote that time to The Lord
    So you support any business banning open carry?

    We ask people to mute their cell phones for the exact reason we won't allow OC. We ask that people please use the nursery if you have a small child that is crying for the same reason.
    Sure....all in the bill of rights, too.

    I will OC lots of places but I would not OC in a church out of respect for God and other people there, I wouldn't even consider it because it could cause some other person, who came there to worship to be distracted.
    sorry if you don't get that
    I "get" that you are a hypocrite regarding this.

    lots of men CC in our church each Sunday. If a person comes through the door yelling Aloha Clark Bar and pulls out an AK, he will probly get shot in the face by a red blooded American man.

    What if shooting Hadji would make the older people uncomfortable?
     

    vmax

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    Really? Attack my faith? How Christian of you. And what does worship have to do with carry?

    I won't OC anywhere. Do you feel the same about the mall?

    And if one of those SAME older folks were to be uncomfortable seeing it at the mall, $#@! em there?

    So you support any business banning open carry?

    Sure....all in the bill of rights, too.

    I "get" that you are a hypocrite regarding this.



    What if shooting Hadji would make the older people uncomfortable?

    told you that you wouldn't;t get it.

    I support OC and also support private property rights

    I won't like it if Whataburger post 30.07, but I'll still go there and eat and just conceal

    you don't have a "right" to come onto my property with a gun if I don't want you to, unless you want to change that to where anyone could just come onto anyone's property and do what they want to.
     
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    vmax

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    So you are OK with any business deciding that?


    Guys, I won't open carry. I am just looking for consistency. It is hypocritical to condemn some businesses that will ban OC, but you support it at a place YOU decide is OK to ban.
    how is a church a "business"?

    should a church also let a person in carrying a AR15?

    If a member at the church who is CCing, ask a guy walking in with an AR15 to take it outside, does that make him a hypocrite? I guess to you it does
     
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    stdreb27

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    So you are OK with any business deciding that?


    Guys, I won't open carry. I am just looking for consistency. It is hypocritical to condemn some businesses that will ban OC, but you support it at a place YOU decide is OK to ban.

    I believe you're misconstruing the intent and content of my post.

    I'm simply pointing out my personal view on the subject related to my behavior.

    This would consistent with my views that folks just need to self govern.

    I'm not gonna force anyone else to operate within my framework of self government.

    Self is the key word.

    If I open carried at church no one would bat an eye. (But it's a small church and everyone knows who is carrying anyways)
     
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    Whistler

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    Have to ask vmax; as an apparently devout fella would you prefer they OC or leave? Is it better to accept their choice to OC, ignore it and have them attend service or press your "it might make some folks distracted" and have them miss service? Just curious because if it's really about "sanctuary" and "devoting time to the Lord" the answer is obvious.

    It's disconcerting you use the argument "We want to discourage distractions so that the sanctuary is a comfortable, inviting place for all people so come". Sounds remarkably like the arguments I've seen shouted down on this very forum; "We’ve had many customers and employees tell us they’re uncomfortable being around someone with a visible firearm who is not a member of law enforcement" (Whataburger). "we are asking for help in fulfilling our goal to create an atmosphere that is safe and inviting for our guests and team members." (Target), "We recognize that the open carry of firearms creates an uncomfortable atmosphere... So, we kindly ask that guests refrain from openly carrying firearms into our restaurants" (Chipotle, Sonic, Chili's).

    One phrase stuck out to me, God is disrespected by OC? Huh, who knew?
     

    majormadmax

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    When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe; but when one stronger than he attacks him and overcomes him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoil. - Luke 11:21-22

    Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle - Psalm 144:1

    So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian to execute the Lord's vengeance on Midian. - Numbers 31:3

    Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men, who have planned to trip up my feet. - Psalm 140:4

    For you equipped me with strength for the battle; you made those who rise against me sink under me. You made my enemies turn their backs to me, and those who hated me I destroyed. - Psalm 18:39-40

    Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. - Exodus 21:24-25

    Amen.
     

    vmax

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    Have to ask vmax; as an apparently devout fella would you prefer they OC or leave? ....

    We would prefer that they pull their shirt out and conceal it and come on in.


    Would you go to a funeral of a close friend dressed in drag just because it is your right to?

    If you had a piece of land and your neighbors were all good friends and gun people and they were having an outdoor wedding on their place, would you go outside during the wedding and start doing mag dumps just because you can knowing it would upset them?

    If you were taking your wife out to eat at a nice place and she really wanted to go there and they ask you to tuck your shirt in because of a dress code, I guess you would just storm out and leave because its your right to wear your shirt anyway you want to?
     

    vmax

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    When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe; but when one stronger than he attacks him and overcomes him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoil. - Luke 11:21-22

    Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle - Psalm 144:1

    So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian to execute the Lord's vengeance on Midian. - Numbers 31:3

    Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men, who have planned to trip up my feet. - Psalm 140:4

    For you equipped me with strength for the battle; you made those who rise against me sink under me. You made my enemies turn their backs to me, and those who hated me I destroyed. - Psalm 18:39-40

    Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. - Exodus 21:24-25

    Amen.

    1 Tim 3:15

    But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth

    Rom 12:18
    If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

    There are some very sweet older people in my church. Many of them I have worked in their yards and homes because they are widows and I care for them a great deal.
    If I walked into church with my gun visible some of them would be unsettled. Why? maybe because they have lived 80 years in Texas where it has been against the law to carry a side arm and maybe they have not heard about the law change Jan 1. Who knows.

    If I did something in the sanctuary that kept a person from being able to enjoy the service, I would feel bad just like if my phone went off and started ringing. Thats why I silence my phone.
    I can bring my phone into the service, I just keep it on silent.

    I would rather conceal my gun as I have for almost 20 years and not cause a distraction inside the church. I will be just as armed.

    I'm probably one of the top gun guys in my church. I organized a mens trip and drove the church van to a gun show this year. I am a Endowment NRA Member.

    The question was ask and I gave my personal opinion. I'm not going to back down. It is just my personal conviction to not OC in a church sanctuary because it serves no good purpose when I can CC and not cause a possible distraction.

    Some of you want to OC in a church. Go for it. I'm sure there are churches that will allow it, its just not a choice I will make to do.
     
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    Whistler

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    You should do what makes you happy but don't blame it on the Lord. What you're talking about (all your examples) are social conventions and specifically your perception of those conventions. YOU think "sanctuary" should be quiet and solemn, YOU think they should conceal, YOU think dressing in drag at a funeral in poor taste. Whether I agree with you or not isn't the issue. TXI thinks it's in poor taste to OC anywhere and while I don't necessarily agree with him it's hypocritical, you think OC is fine some places and not in others, I was just pointing out these are YOUR feelings, those are his feelings and neither one of them have anything to do with what's "respectful", "distracting" or even right or wrong.

    My take on it is if my behavior is not directly, physically and measurably imposing on you beyond your "feelings" then what I do isn't really much of your business. Ultimately you are letting YOUR feelings create rules to judge and control someone else's behavior in much the same manner as anti-gun folks do and either you recognize that as well or you are being hypocritical. Like the often quoted old saw "just because you can doesn't mean you should" is, in my opinion, authoritarian bullshit and simply another way of saying "I don't like that". I say it on here frequently, freedom is messy and the hardest part is letting the other guy have his.
     
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