OPEN CARRY CURRENT STATUS

[pronstar]

I think having officers use their brains to evaluate a potential threat, is much better than some states’ alternatives of treating all armed citizens as felons from the get-go.


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[Charlie]

True!

 

[easy rider]

Wow, some bravado going on. I don't have the statue handy but we were taught in most of our academies that in Texas, we as Officers (investigating criminal activity/ongoing investigation) do have the right to "disarm" anyone who we deem "may" be a threat to our safety or to the public safety. (I realize that raises a lot of temperatures but I have seen the statue, just won't come to mind right now, sorry).
Normally a lot of what transpires between Officer's and the public we serve falls under "Officer discretion" in how we apply the laws, which sometimes upset the people we serve.Most of the time when I would make contact with someone, I really have no idea who they are or their character/attitudes/mental state. It doesn't mean I believe you to be a criminal, but I simply don't know you. How many Officer assassinations have we all heard of in the media over the past few years?

With the current "mental health crisis" I simply don't know your mental status or attitudes. Given a few minutes to speak with you in person makes a lot of difference in gaining trust and evaluating our interaction. If that seems unreasonable to the public then I'm sorry, but I also have the right to go home to my family at the end of my shift. (contrary to some's belief that we get paid to take that risk, and until I determine that you are trustworthy, I would sometimes ask persons to put their weapon elsewhere for all our safety so I can focus on the issue I am there to help with, hopefully). Until I can satisfy myself and my partner that you are not someone who intends to ambush me, I consider it to be an "exigent circumstance" and do have some latitude as to how I handle it. As long as you keep your weapon in your holster and are not making furtive movements towards that weapon, we generally aren't going to have an issue. That doesn't mean that every Officer will feel the same, people are people with differences in temperament/tolerances.

Let me ask you this then. Say I'm out walking, and I'm quite distant from home. I call the police, for whatever reason. The police show up, but I am also armed, and of course I would produce my license upon request. Are they going to ask me to put my gun away even though it's in a holster? If not, why would that be any different than if I'm on my property?

I have invited many, but I would no sooner disarm myself for their sensitivities as I would the police. I know my rights, and a badge doesn't trump those rights.

 

[Kar98]

I do use a level II retention ("rotary adjustable" cant) poly holster: But mine is made by Cytac --- IMI Defense, Blackhawk/Sherpa don't make a holster for a TT-33 Tokarev! ;-)
-- BR

You might have to upgrade to a CZ 52.

 

[BillRedding]

Just how "special" of a person does one have to be in order to be up to carrying openly? This is not a rhetorical question, I really would appreciate an answer because I simply do not at all understand why someone has to be "special" to open carry and how most people (at least gun owners who carry regularly) would not be "up to it".

Any explanation would probably just lead to an unpleasant exchange, as I found CCers to be OCers most vocal critics (and even hostile, IME), and "debating" the issue is futile. However, I DO talk about this when I am speaking to someone face-to-face (and I meet people often being an OCer), partly because it's easier to speak vs. writing a lot of text.
But if you personally do NOT OC -- as I'm guessing you don't -- then why not? THAT may answer your own question.
-- BR
P.S. Forum member "Charlie" above got ONE reason correct: An OCer may have to deal with "disapproving looks" and even in-your-face confrontations with anti-gun people, or even cops. Most carriers don't even want to deal with "harsh looks" let alone some anti-gun liberal (rabid or not) or a bullying cop getting in their face. For sure, I don't either, but realize that can happen...and accept it as part of OCing. Fortunately, in the 12+ years I've been OCing, NO such confrontation has happened with people or LEOs, only ONE time was there a "harsh look" from someone (in a Walmart some years back) and it didn't lead to anything further. So in that sense, it does take a stronger person. And that context, most carriers aren't.

 

[Charlie]

OC isn't required at this time, is it?

 

[popo22]

Charlie, and that's exactly how it should be if the situation isn't too volatile. However, I've read it over and over again about how "so and so" felt the Officer's had no right to ask him or take his weapon. That the Officer had no "PC" or "RS" to treat him/her as they did...
Often times Officer's DO get information updates while responding to an incident that raise their suspicions, and the person who ends up being on the receiving end of a bad situation gets "butt hurt" because in his / her estimation the Officer's actions did not justify their unbending actions/attitudes.
None of us really want to make enemies/combatants, but in the heat of the moment when information is severely lacking and the risks extremely high, we simply don't feel we have the time to explain the minutia of everything we know about the situation prior to taking action to make the scene safe. (also consider that we are human and not immune to the effects of adrenaline). I am not trying to make excuses for bad behavior, just asking for consideration and empathy for being in a bad situation with limited information, with a very high threat level. No matter how much the "young rookie's" think they are invincible, we are all human, hopefully experience will enable them to calm the thousand possibilities rushing through their heads, if they survive long enough.
Sometimes with a multitude of unknowns happening simultaneously it is simply a survival response to disarm anyone who obviously is armed, until we can get a grasp of what actually happened. I can't even count the times I have gone to the scene where "so and so" wants to complain about an Officer's actions/attitude because they felt the Officer was to abrasive and demanding, upsetting their sensitivities/ego's. Usually after explaining the Officer's perspective, they were much less offended and were more sensitive to the Officer's dilemma, we are just human and wish to go home to our families too. That's not unreasonable.

 

[Charlie]

It's a no win situation in many cases. Too many variables to expand on all of them. Were I OCing and an officer wanted to disarm me, I'd comply and I wouldn't get butt hurt but I'd definitely ask why. Then again, we (citizens and officers here) do not live in the big cities where there are definitely more criminals than the little cities.

 

[Charlie]

And in small towns, the officers pretty much know who is a threat and who is not. Were I in law enforcement in Houston, Austin, DFW, etc. I'd probably ask 95% of the folks to disarm.

 

[BillRedding]

You might have to upgrade to a CZ 52.

I DID consider the CZ52 way back when, but decided the TT-33 is actually better-suited to me, and TMK, it's more robust/stronger than a CZ52. And maybe even more concealable (which I have to do in some stores) than a CZ52 as a TT-33 is so flat/thin, and the grip is shorter. And the gun has kind of "melted" design to it so it's smooth -- no sharp edges to be uncomfortable/poke you (EXCEPT for the rear sight!). I have 3 Tokarevs (2 Romanian and 1 Polish)...the Polish is my EDC/OC gun, but not because it's "better" than my 2 Romanians (I used one of them to get my TX LTC), but because the slide serrations are authentic to the original Russian TT-33. AND the larger serrations the Polish gun has will make the slide easier to rack (the Romanians have thinner "modern" serrations) should I have gloves on...even if not in Siberia but in Colorado -- in the still-very-cold Winters there. :-)
-- BR

 

[jeepinbanditrider]

edit-

eh whatever not worth the poo storm it's liable to generate.

 

[Kar98]

I fixed the lack of robustness on my 52 by replacing the cast factory firing pin with a machined one. But obviously I wasn't serious about suggesting it as a serious carrying piece.

 

[easy rider]

If I were to give in to disapproving looks, I may as well give in to the safe space mentality.

 

[Glenn B]

Any explanation would probably just lead to an unpleasant exchange, as I found CCers to be OCers most vocal (and even hostile, IME) critics and arguing is futile. However, I DO talk about this when I am speaking to someone face-to-face (and I meet people often being an OCer), partly because it's easier to speak vs. writing a lot of text.
But if you personally do NOT OC -- as I'm guessing you don't -- then why not? THAT may answer your own question.
-- BR

So you will not answer my question and as an apparent excuse for not answering it say you find most folks who carry concealed are the most vocal, and as you say even hostile, toward those who open carry. Also, instead of answering the simple question I asked - you ask me one in place of giving an answer and give the off the wall excuse of essentially not wanting to start an argument after you said that those who open carry are "special"! I find that all rather comically and sadly amazing.

You would have gotten no argument from me had you merely answered my question. It was one merely out of curiosity as to what makes you and others who open carry "special" in your mind. Now though, after getting that convoluted reply from you - that was, with all due respect, truly some large heap of mumbo-jumbo - I must say you thinking someone needs to be "special" to open carry makes me think of this guy:



He was special too or at least so he thought of himself as being special. I pretty much know why he thought that (based upon personal communication with some DEA and Customs agents who knew of him when I was on the job) but still am left wondering why you think so about those who open carry. Can't anyone open carry? I would think so but evidently you do not think so; yet, you refuse to say why except to say you believe them to be "special". I would merely like to know what you think makes them "special". I promise no argument nor disrespect from me.

That said, I would appreciate it if you cut out the game playing and drop the excuses and please simply explain why it is you think people who open carry are somehow "special" as compared to they who do not open carry. If you seriously want an answer to the question you asked me, then be so courteous as to answer my question first since it was asked first. I then gladly and courteously will answer your question if you are still curious.

 

[popo22]

Kar98, I am not familiar with the "IMI" holsters but I do like the Safariland ALS" holsters for retention.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

I OC at times: Once I am out in any store parking lot, I remove my cover vest. I chuck it into the cab, I'm then OCing - I proceed to start unloading groceries (or what have you) into the back of my pick up truck. I feel rather vulnerable while completing this exercise plus if left on the vest gets somewhat in my way. OCing I don't feel nearly as vulnerable to parking lot criminals.

I OC any time I fuel up.

Gas stations are the places I've most been given a strangers hard luck story while I stand there rooted in the spot for the moment while fueling up.

Since I started OCing while fueling this annoyance has become a thing of the past.

 

[BillRedding]

So you will not answer my question..."

No, I won't, because I don't believe you. Plus your derogatory term "mumbo-jumbo" and irrelevant/incompetent and immaterial video belie any "openness" you claim to have. Your tone is one of someone I do NOT want to "explain" anything to. I'm done with this conversation.
So whatever you say is fine with me...
-- BR

 

[popo22]

Charlie, I totally understand and appreciate your empathy:
"Were I OCing and an officer wanted to disarm me, I'd comply and I wouldn't get butt hurt but I'd definitely ask why. Then again, we (citizens and officers here) do not live in the big cities where there are definitely more criminals than the little cities.
however, that's exactly where I spent the last 30 years of my "LEO" career, different perspective.

 

[easy rider]

I OC any time I fuel up.

Gas stations are the places I've most been given a strangers hard luck story while I stand there rooted in the spot for the moment while fueling up.

Since I started OCing while fueling this annoyance has become a thing of the past.

And here I thought it was my it was my menacing looks.

 

[BillRedding]

Kar98, I am not familiar with the "IMI" holsters but I do like the Safariland ALS" holsters for retention.

IIRC, IMI Defense is an Israeli company...they look like high-quality products. For one reason, the thickness of their poly holsters seems to be about the same as the also-quality Blackhawk/Serpa and thicker than my Cytac's poly. Still, the Cytac has been very serviceable (so far) and I'm pleased with the purchase. I have Cytacs for my 2 Sig P238s also. And one for my 1911. For my EAA Tanfoglio Witness (P S FDE) 9mm, I use a Blackhawk Serpa...but since they don't make one for the Witness (that often happens when you have "obscure" guns), I got the holster made for a Sig 226 ("with rail"), and although it's a tight fit, it works.
-- BR