Open carry legislation/question

[mercot]

I agree with most of what you're saying and for the record, I'm all for open carry in Texas. But most of those other states that allow it, have complex, goofy gun laws to begin with. And I think you'll find open carry isn't practiced much at all. I don't think it would be in Texas either, but our State lawmakers haven't put a lot of effort into making that change. Maybe it's because they know, the net result will me negligible and there's a lot more pressing issues. The biggest impact will be that Texas will move to the list of states that allow open carry....and that's about it.

One thing is for sure, the effort prior to and during this last session was not much of an effort. If it were, it would have been driven by a Texan, not someone from out of state that profits from getting people read what they write.

My understanding of the open carry effort to date was because of other more pressing issues being pushed. I don't believe it is a dead issue, only delayed.

 

[JKTex]

My understanding of the open carry effort to date was because of other more pressing issues being pushed. I don't believe it is a dead issue, only delayed.

Dead this session. And it was said, and I suspect it's true, that there was a fear that it might cause issues for the campus carry and parking lot bills. I'm not even sure an open carry bill was even fully drafted but dropped early.

We'll see how things go the next go around. 2 years is a lot of time to work on getting it classified as "pressing". After all, it took 6 years to get Concealed Carry passed.....and a Governor that would sign it. We have the Governor that would sign it now; lets how that's the case next go around.

 

[txinvestigator]

It may not be an issue for you, but the issue depends on the officer called to the scene and it will be his/her determination whether or not the "print" was intentional.

Nope. An officer would have to observe your intentional fail to conceal to make an arrest.

Texas Penal Code

Sec. 6.03. DEFINITIONS OF CULPABLE MENTAL STATES. (a) A person acts intentionally, or with intent, with respect to the nature of his conduct or to a result of his conduct when it is his conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the result.

Again, that's your personal opinion and your carry position preference. Not everyone is like you.

You said there was only two carry positions. The fact is, there are not.

And I might add, drawing from a seated position is extremely difficult, especially if one is left handed and carrying in the nine o'clock position.

You disagree that a handgun just sitting on your sink will fly off if you have to stop short, turn quickly or are in a collision? Have you heard of inertia?

I can't imagine wearing a full sized 1911 at three o'clock with a shirt tucked in so you must dress different than I do at all times.

You said to conceal you had to wear bulky clothing, you never wrote about a tucked in shirt. There are plenty of ways to carry concealed without wearing bulky clothing. In fact, there are several styles of holsters made to conceal while tucked in.

It's difficult to draw from concealed carry regardless of how much training you have gone through, especially under real life stress conditions.

Not difficult. Perhaps slower, but with professional training and proper carry it does not have to be difficult. I have taken professional training. I realize not everyone can or wants to. That can make concealed carry slower and cumbersome, I agree.

It's an obvious conclusion. No one has proven that the death penalty is a deterrent either, yet there are those who still claim it deters at least one person.

People who open carry are attacked regularly. Cops, security guards, etc.....

Was that second attempt at ridicule meant to be similar to the comment insinuating that those who want to carry openly are just boisterous rednecks. Whatever valid arguments you presented prior to engaging in ridicule are lost when you go there.

Riduclue? You said you would like to carry a bigger gun. People conceal full sized guns all of the time. How big a gun DO you want to carry? I never said anything about rednecks. You have be confused with another poster.

BTW, the smiley means I am playing with you.........

Well, I haven't read the petition so I can't comment there, but your rebuttal was all opinion and conjecture.

Nah, it is fact. That you don't like it or agree does not =opinion.

Yes there are and it appears you are not comfortable with someone openly carrying a weapon.

Wrong again. It affects me none.

Typically, for someone already carrying openly, it simply means they object to others doing it because they are losing what makes them special. Did you have the same concerns prior to the licensing of individuals to carry concealed? Something tells me you did.

Wrong still. I don't open carry, and have not in 16 years. I was a staunch supporter of the CHL program and laws. I also support that you want open carry. I simply think to make an impact on the legislature you need better arguments.

Oh yeah, the facts:
All uniformed police officers carry openly.

No kidding?

Ask yourself why and argue that.

As a non-LEO, you will never be intentionally placing yourself in harms way.

Off duty cops can carry openly off duty, and they do not. As yourself why and argue that.

 

[txinvestigator]

If open carry was such a problem, why are there only six states in the U.S which ban it.

As I understand the 'facts', the six states which currently ban open carry of handguns are: Texas, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Arkansas, New York and Florida.

Maybe the 44 others just don't have the 'facts', huh?

Your facts are wrong.

Texas Generally proscribes the carry of handguns except on your own premises or premises under your control (you can open carry), or in your own vehicle of one under your control (must conceal). (not including LE, military, etc)

Penal Code 46.15(b) tells us when else you can carry;

traveling (you can open carry)

Engaged in lawful hunting, fishing or other sporting activity if the handgun is commonly used in that activity. (you can open carry)

Under a CHL (must be concealed)

As a armed guard (must be openly carried)

as a manager of a placed licensed by the TABC (may open carry)

Out of the 8 circumstances Texas allows you to carry a handgun, 5 allow open carry, one demands it, and two prohibit it.

Texas does not ban the open carry of handguns. The statstic that all those other states do comes into question based on this lie about Texas (I realize it is not your lie).

California allows the open carry of UNLOADED handguns. See my point?

 

[txinvestigator]

Well if "tossing it on the seat" is your interpretation of having a handgun on the seat readily available, I can understand why you would object. That was not my interpretation however.

I never claimed otherwise and never recommended SOB carry, so I don't know why you brought it up.

You wrote, "The ability to remove your weapon and lay it on the seat of your vehicle in plain sight with easy access, not to mention a more comfortable location than in your pocket or pressing into your back.". How else would you interpret the phrase, "lay it on your seat"? If you did not mean sitting on the seat, what did you mean?

"Pressing into your back" suggests nothing but SOB carry.

If the wording in the state law includes the description of the offense as "intentional", then that is up for interpretation. Meaning of course, the personal opinion of the LEO first and foremost, followed by the opinion of the court system. All very expensive.

IF? It does include the word "intentional". It has a precise meaning under the law, and I have listed that definition on this thread. It is not up to opinion. And again, unless he observes your intentional fail to conceal, he could not arrest you.

what would you consider the easiest and fastest method of drawing a weapon, regardless of your training; from concealment or from open carry?

You wrote it was "difficult" to draw from concealed, not that it was easier to draw from open carry. There is a difference. I agree it is easier to draw from open carry.

 

[pwrincross]

I am brand new to this forum but, Wow, what a lot of posting in regards to open carry. I didn’t realize how intense it could get in discussing open carry. I am for open carry, period. But, that doesn’t mean that I would open carry. Most LEO’s understand the meaning of “intentional”. The LEO’s I know are some of the finest persons on the planet trying to do a good job. I for one just like to know that I could open carry if I woke up one morning and decided to. When it comes to guns I believe the fewer restrictions the better. Put those who use guns to commit a crime or “intentionally” hurt others in prison. As my father always said, “put them so far back in jail they have to pipe daylight to them.”

 

[mercot]

Nope. An officer would have to observe your intentional fail to conceal to make an arrest.

That's only your opinion and not codified in the law. If any arrest required the officer to observe an offense, our jails would be empty.

You said there was only two carry positions. The fact is, there are not.

No, I "mentioned" two carry positions. It was your misinterpretation that I wrote there were "only" two positions.

You disagree that a handgun just sitting on your sink will fly off if you have to stop short, turn quickly or are in a collision? Have you heard of inertia?

Again with the ridicule. Perhaps you just don't recognize when you're doing it. Yes, everyone knows about inertia, including me. I happen to have a two section bench seat in my vehicle and can place a secured weapon between them. I call that sitting it on the seat, readily available, though exposed and not concealed. Again, in your personal situation, you can't understand how others can do something you can't imagine.

You said to conceal you had to wear bulky clothing, you never wrote about a tucked in shirt. There are plenty of ways to carry concealed without wearing bulky clothing. In fact, there are several styles of holsters made to conceal while tucked in.

My only comment here is for you to read the definition of "bulky". Perhaps it will help. In order to wear a full size 1911 in a holster where the shirt can be tucked in, the shirt must be oversized and look blossomed at the waist in order to prevent printing. I wear polo/golf shirts tucked in and if not bought to fit, they make a person look sloppy. If someone wants to look that way, that's fine with me, but don't ask me to do it.

Not difficult. Perhaps slower, but with professional training and proper carry it does not have to be difficult. I have taken professional training. I realize not everyone can or wants to. That can make concealed carry slower and cumbersome, I agree.

This is just another elitist statement in my opinion. A person can train to do anything without taking "professional training". I liken this comment to many of my friends with college degrees who look down on those who don't have a degree.

People who open carry are attacked regularly. Cops, security guards, etc.....

This comment had nothing to do with what I stated which was a rebuttal to your comment that there was no proof that open carry was a deterrent to potential criminals. Perhaps you can tell us how we can quantify the number of criminals who decided not to attack a person because he was armed?

Riduclue? You said you would like to carry a bigger gun. People conceal full sized guns all of the time. How big a gun DO you want to carry? I never said anything about rednecks. You have be confused with another poster.

Yes, ridicule. I said I would like to carry a bigger gun, not a gun bigger than your gun. Hence your way of thinking was all about you and generated the "cannon" ridicule.

Nah, it is fact. That you don't like it or agree does not =opinion.

None of what you stated was fact other than a cut and paste of relevent Texas law.

Wrong again. It affects me none. Wrong still. I don't open carry, and have not in 16 years. I was a staunch supporter of the CHL program and laws. I also support that you want open carry. I simply think to make an impact on the legislature you need better arguments.

I believe no matter what arguments are presented, you will do nothing but criticize them as you have done so far. There are no "facts" regarding benefits of open carry vs concealed carry because open carry is very rare with no statistics recorded, so your insistence that facts be presented is a red herring, in my opinion. You can however, look at the states where open carry is happening and determine if it is a problem. It's not a fact, but an obvious conlusion that with open carry, a criminal will not be carrying a weapon where others can see it and thereby calling attention to himself.

No kidding?

Just stating the facts. All uniformed police officers carry open for a reason. It concealed carry was an effective method of carrying a weapon for self-defense, you can bet all uniformed officers would be carrying concealed so as not to escalate a situation.

As a non-LEO, you will never be intentionally placing yourself in harms way.

So when danger lurks, because I'm not a LEO, I should hide in the dark so as to not place myself in harms way? Again, you make statements without any thought behind them in your haste to criticize.

Off duty cops can carry openly off duty, and they do not. As yourself why and argue that.

You of all people here, since you claim extensive knowledge of law enforcement and the law, should be aware that the policy regarding off-duty carry is set by the department. Many PD's do not allow anything other than concealed carry off-duty. Besides the fact that today, a person carrying a handgun in Texas in the open while wearing civilian clothes is likely to cause alarm to the public. Besides, when I'm not working, I am not working and I'm sure off-duty LEOs feel the same way.

 

[mercot]

Your facts are wrong.

Texas Generally proscribes the carry of handguns except on your own premises or premises under your control (you can open carry), or in your own vehicle of one under your control (must conceal). (not including LE, military, etc)

Penal Code 46.15(b) tells us when else you can carry;

traveling (you can open carry)

Engaged in lawful hunting, fishing or other sporting activity if the handgun is commonly used in that activity. (you can open carry)

Under a CHL (must be concealed)

As a armed guard (must be openly carried)

as a manager of a placed licensed by the TABC (may open carry)

Out of the 8 circumstances Texas allows you to carry a handgun, 5 allow open carry, one demands it, and two prohibit it.

Texas does not ban the open carry of handguns. The statstic that all those other states do comes into question based on this lie about Texas (I realize it is not your lie).

California allows the open carry of UNLOADED handguns. See my point?

My facts are only technically wrong. The fact is, Texas does not allow open carry of a handgun except in very limited situations.

There is also a contradiction in your stated "facts":

in your own vehicle of one under your control (must conceal)

and

traveling (you can open carry)

So if I take your definitions literally, I can stroll down the highway on foot and into any city I want with a handgun strapped to my side, or I can get out of my vehicle at the Dairy Queen down the road and strap my formerly concealed handgun on as I go inside. I don't think so.

As far as "unloaded" in California and a number of other states, you should look up the legal definition of unloaded, as it means the inability to fire the weapon by simply pulling the trigger. In other words, a 1911 cocked and locked with a round in the chamber would be prohibited, whereas a 1911 with an empty chamber and fully loaded magazine would not be.

 

[txinvestigator]

That's only your opinion and not codified in the law. If any arrest required the officer to observe an offense, our jails would be empty.

No, my friend, it is fact. Read Article 14 of the code of criminal procedures. Peace Officers can arrest for any offense committed in his presence or view, or for a felony upon probable cause. There are only certain misdemeanors he can arrest for that did not occur in his presence or view, and this ain't one of them. It is fact.

No, I "mentioned" two carry positions. It was your misinterpretation that I wrote there were "only" two positions.

You "mentioned' then in your argument for open carry. Being inclusive was disingenuous, at best.

Again with the ridicule. Perhaps you just don't recognize when you're doing it. Yes, everyone knows about inertia, including me.

Then again, you are being disingenuous when you say that it is only my opinion that a gun sitting on the seat will go flying if you have to maneuver quickly, aren't you.

I happen to have a two section bench seat in my vehicle and can place a secured weapon between them. I call that sitting it on the seat, readily available, though exposed and not concealed.

Back peddling seems to be the order of your post now. You clearly wrote sitting in the seat in two posts, again to make your argument for concealed carry. Stuck between the seats is not the same, and you know it. There it would be concealed, and could easily be concealed with a towel, ball cap or anything else.

Again, in your personal situation, you can't understand how others can do something you can't imagine.

Wrong now for about the ninth time. I often place my gun 'tween the seats.

My only comment here is for you to read the definition of "bulky". Perhaps it will help. In order to wear a full size 1911 in a holster where the shirt can be tucked in, the shirt must be oversized and look blossomed at the waist in order to prevent printing. I wear polo/golf shirts tucked in and if not bought to fit, they make a person look sloppy. If someone wants to look that way, that's fine with me, but don't ask me to do it.

There it is, you should not have to make any concessions to do what YOU want. That's a valid reason for new legislation.

This is just another elitist statement in my opinion. A person can train to do anything without taking "professional training". I liken this comment to many of my friends with college degrees who look down on those who don't have a degree.

Nope. It is simply not true that it is difficult to draw from concealment. I have personally observed many people do it, under timed conditions, quickly and efficiently.



This comment had nothing to do with what I stated which was a rebuttal to your comment that there was no proof that open carry was a deterrent to potential criminals. Perhaps you can tell us how we can quantify the number of criminals who decided not to attack a person because he was armed?
[/quote] You wrote open carry was a deterrent, and in that very post you also said cops open carry and referenced them. Open carry does not seem to be a deterrent for them, does it? You can't quantify it; that is why it is an invalid argument. There is no evidence it deters anything.

Yes, ridicule. I said I would like to carry a bigger gun, not a gun bigger than your gun. Hence your way of thinking was all about you and generated the "cannon" ridicule.

The fact is people carry full sized guns concealed now. You don't have to carry a mouse gun to conceal.

None of what you stated was fact other than a cut and paste of relevent Texas law.

Of course it is.

I believe no matter what arguments are presented, you will do nothing but criticize them as you have done so far.

Wrong again. I have clearly agreed with one of your points. Other valid ones I agree with.

It's not a fact, but an obvious conlusion that with open carry, a criminal will not be carrying a weapon where others can see it and thereby calling attention to himself.

Another bogus claim from the petition. If open carry is not an issue ion those states where legal, then why would criminals not open carry? Nobody pays attention to it in those states, right?

Just stating the facts. All uniformed police officers carry open for a reason. It concealed carry was an effective method of carrying a weapon for self-defense, you can bet all uniformed officers would be carrying concealed so as not to escalate a situation.

Do you not see the hypocrisy? If open carry would escalate a situation, why would YOU want to do it?

Again why don't OFF DUTY cops open carry?

So when danger lurks, because I'm not a LEO, I should hide in the dark so as to not place myself in harms way? Again, you make statements without any thought behind them in your haste to criticize.

Any thought? Are you kidding me? No one said anything about you hiding when danger lurks. You do not intentionally go into situations where the police go. If you are smart, you will avoid them. And you ARE smart enough to know exactly what I am talking about.

You of all people here, since you claim extensive knowledge of law enforcement and the law, should be aware that the policy regarding off-duty carry is set by the department.

SOME departments. Mine allowed us to carry off duty as we wished.

Many PD's do not allow anything other than concealed carry off-duty.

That's right, because there are advantages to that. It is not to keep from scaring the people.

 

[txinvestigator]

My facts are only technically wrong.

Wrong is wrong.

The fact is, Texas does not allow open carry of a handgun except in very limited situations.

Limited? In 75% of the circumstances when you can carry in Texas, you either can or MUST open carry.

There is also a contradiction in your stated "facts":

The areas of my post you referenced did not carry over to this post, so I will reference them in bold; I wrote;

in your own vehicle of one under your control (must conceal)
​

and

traveling (you can open carry)
​

So if I take your definitions literally,

Those are not "my" definitions, there are straight from the penal code.

I can stroll down the highway on foot and into any city I want with a handgun strapped to my side, or I can get out of my vehicle at the Dairy Queen down the road and strap my formerly concealed handgun on as I go inside. I don't think so.

I assume you are referring to the traveling portion. Penal code section 46.15(b) states that 46.02 does not apply to a person who is traveling.

I don't know where you came up with that scenarion, but it certainly does not fit either description.

However, if you are traveling, you can carry how you wish.

As far as "unloaded" in California and a number of other states, you should look up the legal definition of unloaded, as it means the inability to fire the weapon by simply pulling the trigger. In other words, a 1911 cocked and locked with a round in the chamber would be prohibited, whereas a 1911 with an empty chamber and fully loaded magazine would not be.

Wrong for about the tenth time. From California law;

(g)

A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip
thereof attached to the firearm.​

​

 

[JKTex]

It's like watching a fight trained pit bull on Fluffy the toy poodle and Fluffy keeps jumping back in, al beit "jumping" is a stretch with less feet and partial legs.

 

[mercot]

Wrong is wrong. Limited? In 75% of the circumstances when you can carry in Texas, you either can or MUST open carry.

The areas of my post you referenced did not carry over to this post, so I will reference them in bold; I wrote;

in your own vehicle of one under your control (must conceal)
​

and

traveling (you can open carry)
​

Those are not "my" definitions, there are straight from the penal code.

I can stroll down the highway on foot and into any city I want with a handgun strapped to my side, or I can get out of my vehicle at the Dairy Queen down the road and strap my formerly concealed handgun on as I go inside. I don't think so.

I assume you are referring to the traveling portion. Penal code section 46.15(b) states that 46.02 does not apply to a person who is traveling.

I don't know where you came up with that scenarion, but it certainly does not fit either description.

However, if you are traveling, you can carry how you wish.

Wrong for about the tenth time. From California law;

[/left]

This will be the last time I waste any time trying to defend what I didn't say.

I think we both know that Texas code prohibits carrying a weapon in plain view except in very limited circumstances by a very limited group of people. To claim that Texas allows open carry based on the limited authorizations is disingenuous at the very least.

Nowhere does the code state that I can carry a visible weapon when I'm not on my property or in en route to my vehicle, except for those official duties specified in the code for that specific group of individuals.

As a private citizen, I cannot carry open outside of my vehicle at any time other than what I stated. Unlike your simplified characterizations [traveling (you can open carry)], I cannot carry open while traveling except when I am in my vehicle. When I step out of my vehicle, my weapon must be concealed, hence my reference to stepping out at the Dairy Queen.

And California law states that a magazine attached to the weapon must be empty, but does not prohibit full magazines carried on your person. So my definition still stands. Unloaded means not having the ability to fire the weapon by pulling the trigger. You can carry a weapon with no magazine inserted and with "proper training" can easily draw the weapon and insert the magazine with little effort.

That's it. I'm done responding to the nitpicking criticism and mischaracterization of my comments.

Link to California's response to the carrying of 'unloaded' hanguns:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=135991

 

[JKTex]

You ability to spin has diminished. If it were me, I wouldn't want to try to keep going either. The last part was coming apart before the keys were struck.

I think this proves on thing, this thread has no useful life left in it. I agree with tx that "if" open carry is ever going to make it into a bill that has even a half a chance, it needs to be done right, as any bill does. Not half ass with sound bite's gathered from irrelevant sources used as fact. And again, it needs to be by Texan's that are serious about getting a bill passed, not someone from out of state trying to get articles published and checks in hand who can't/won't address direct questions within their own forum. We got boondoggled this session.

 

[mercot]

It's like watching a fight trained pit bull on Fluffy the toy poodle and Fluffy keeps jumping back in, al beit "jumping" is a stretch with less feet and partial legs.

That's funny. Are you two related?

 

[mercot]

You ability to spin has diminished. If it were me, I wouldn't want to try to keep going either. The last part was coming apart before the keys were struck.

I think this proves on thing, this thread has no useful life left in it. I agree with tx that "if" open carry is ever going to make it into a bill that has even a half a chance, it needs to be done right, as any bill does. Not half ass with sound bite's gathered from irrelevant sources used as fact. And again, it needs to be by Texan's that are serious about getting a bill passed, not someone from out of state trying to get articles published and checks in hand who can't/won't address direct questions within their own forum. We got boondoggled this session.

Sorry, but your generalities and rah rah cheerleading for your friend add nothing to the discussion.

If you believe "facts" are the only thing that will generate interest in an open carry bill, please post a list of types of facts you 'feel' will be necessary to consider.

 

[Vellcrow]

The only part about this discussion that really gets to me is this: Every time someone mentions open carry in Texas, txinvestigator has to pull out the "open carry is allowed in Texas". No matter how many times Texas Penal Code is quoted, it is not allowed right now, at least not according to 99.9% of the population's definition of open carry. The definition of open carry that the average joe refers to is like the situation in Arizona, where you can walk down the street with a pistol on your side, in plain view of everyone.

Nobody is talking about being an armed security guard. Nobody is talking about inside their own house. Nobody is talking about being a manager of a TABC licensed place.

Txinvestigator knows damn well what is meant when someone brings up open carry. Me and him have locked horns on this topic before, so don't feel singled out, mercot.

 

[biglucky]

I for one am a definite proponent of open carry, for all the reasons mentioned as well as because concealed carry with out a man purse is damn near impossible for us fat people... yeah I said it, not having open carry is fatist... .... but really, I more than likely would carry "open" if it was legal.

Another think to think about when you look at some of the other open carry states such as Arizona in particular is that they have very restrictive limits on where you can openly carry that firearm. I was in Phoenix for the national NRA convention a couple weekends ago and it was interesting to see people carrying open with both standard belt holsters as well as shoulder rigs and the such. I struck up a conversation with a couple of them while we were in line for Uncle Ted's book signing and discussed it with them. In Arizona they don't have 51% like we do, they just plain cannot carry in an establishment that serves alcohol period. That means most restaurants are out of the question.

I wouldn't want to trade open carry for further restrictions on where we can carry concealed.

 

[txinvestigator]

The only part about this discussion that really gets to me is this: Every time someone mentions open carry in Texas, txinvestigator has to pull out the "open carry is allowed in Texas".

If you are going to reference me, do it right. I only bring those things up when people use the "Texas is one of only x number of states that BAN open carry. Since that is NOT TRUE, it is not valid to use that allegation as a point of argument for open carry. If you want to say that "Texas generally prohibits the open carry of handguns except for a few limited and special circumstances, and those do not apply to Joe Citizen carrying on a day to day basis, ", then fine. You can truthfully argue that, and it does not appear to those who know that you (meant in the general term) are being dishonest to make a point.


The antis like to use half truths and lies to make their points. Lets not stoop to that.

 

[Vellcrow]

If you are going to reference me, do it right. I only bring those things up when people use the "Texas is one of only x number of states that BAN open carry.

The antis like to use half truths and lies to make their points. Lets not stoop to that.

I did do it right and I have not stooped to anything. Here again, you are nit picking at details and trying to over-think it. According to laymen's terms, open carry is banned in Texas. You know exactly what the average person means when they say "open carry", quit trying to complicate things.

I do agree however, that the online petition was poorly written, and that some of the things stated as facts are not 100% accurate.

Yes, biglucky, Arizona was screwed up regarding the limit on carrying in restaurants that served alcohol. Arizona is one of the most gun friendly places I have ever lived in; open carry, concealed weapon (not just handgun) license, class 3 going off in the open desert...it was great except that one little law in the way. If I had stayed, I would have tried to bring in a 51% rule like Texas has.

 

[txinvestigator]

I did do it right and I have not stooped to anything. Here again, you are nit picking at details and trying to over-think it. According to laymen's terms, open carry is banned in Texas.

NO IT IS NOT. It is a lie to say so. Your legislators know the truth. When you lie in a petition they take you about as seriously as they would a crying baby.

You know exactly what the average person means when they say "open carry", quit trying to complicate things.

Of course I do. However, it is not banned in Texas at all.

I do agree however, that the online petition was poorly written, and that some of the things stated as facts are not 100% accurate.