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Open carry of long arms at state capital?

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  • rushthezeppelin

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    Because it's not about the second amendment at THIS point. That's an early strawman. The second amendment doesn't guarantee HOW you can carry - see below.

    Maybe I'm in the minority on this but I always thought BARE arms meant bare out in the open not right to HIDE arms which is what criminals used to (and still) do. Also exactly where do you think the middle ground is with these people that are scared of arms. We have tried the compromise route many times and so far as I can tell it's only gotten more restrictions placed on our right without any kind of gain for us.
     

    txinvestigator

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    The issue with some of the demonstrations is simple; it is the zealots. These folks who descend on Starbucks, a private business, to make THEIR point. The people who show up with handguns that they claim do not meet the definition of firearm and then video the contact with police and repeat over and over, "Am I being detained, am I free to go", or refuse to leave with their long guns when asked to do so.

    Their actions are making ME rethink MY position. It is causing me to think about the image I want others to have of me and my beliefs.
     

    karlac

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    We have tried the compromise route many times and so far as I can tell it's only gotten more restrictions placed on our right without any kind of gain for us.

    Absolutely. IMO, believing that OC, or any other gun right in Texas, and our current backs-to-the wall fight to keep our 2A rights, are not woven out of the same bolt of cloth, is a mistake. Your opponent in one, is precisely the same as your opponent in the other.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Maybe I'm in the minority on this but I always thought BARE arms meant bare out in the open not right to HIDE arms which is what criminals used to (and still) do. Also exactly where do you think the middle ground is with these people that are scared of arms. We have tried the compromise route many times and so far as I can tell it's only gotten more restrictions placed on our right without any kind of gain for us.

    Bare means without covering. If the amendment read "the right to keep and bare arms" it would be nonsensical. That word is an adjective that describes a noun. BEAR is the word used in the amendment as a verb (intransitive verb). It means "to carry or posses" in this usage.
     

    Younggun

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    The issue with some of the demonstrations is simple; it is the zealots. These folks who descend on Starbucks, a private business, to make THEIR point. The people who show up with handguns that they claim do not meet the definition of firearm and then video the contact with police and repeat over and over, "Am I being detained, am I free to go", or refuse to leave with their long guns when asked to do so.

    I agree with this. Starbucks is the perfect example of a company who was staying out of the fight and asked that they not be made part of it. That changed because people chose not to respect a polite request not to use their locations for rallies.

    Now, instead of having a place that you could probably legally walk in to without any problems they have taken the legal route simply because they didn't want rallies on their doorstep.

    Do the rallies, but do them in places that welcome you and set the example by being a respectful and upstanding citizen.
     

    karlac

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    The issue with some of the demonstrations is simple; it is the zealots. These folks who descend on Starbucks, a private business, to make THEIR point. The people who show up with handguns that they claim do not meet the definition of firearm and then video the contact with police and repeat over and over, "Am I being detained, am I free to go", or refuse to leave with their long guns when asked to do so.

    Their actions are making ME rethink MY position. It is causing me to think about the image I want others to have of me and my beliefs.

    I agree there is a regretably naive component to their actions that does the OC proponents not a wit of good against a much more experience opponent ... the media.


    Since I doubt that the average opponent of OC watchs, or even knows about, those silly videos the proponents put on YouTube, a good argument can be made that much of their "image" that we all perceive is a direct result of the spin put on their actions by the media? A good case in point was the latest photos of the Mom's protest.
     

    Mreed911

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    Maybe I'm in the minority on this but I always thought BARE arms meant bare out in the open not right to HIDE arms which is what criminals used to (and still) do. Also exactly where do you think the middle ground is with these people that are scared of arms. We have tried the compromise route many times and so far as I can tell it's only gotten more restrictions placed on our right without any kind of gain for us.

    You'd be right if it were BARE. Except that it's BEAR, as in to have and carry. You have no explicit right to BARE arms. Whether you have an implicit right is the core of this dispute.

    I think of it like this. The more rabid OC folks here are akin to those who would walk into every business that's not 30.06 posted and thank them for not being 30.06 posted instead of just carrying concealed and going about their business... giving that business a chance to wake up and realize "hey, I could post 30.06 notices and stop EVERYONE from carrying."

    Unfortunately, the rabid CC-only types are the ones who don't understand the distinction between actual concealed carry and the public perception that nobody carries, which doesn't help when we need public support and the thought is "I don't ever see anyone carrying, why should I care about this issue?"

    I don't know where the middle is and I'd suggest it constantly shifts. I'd think that reasonable OC education when it comes to lawmakers is probably the best thing. Imagine getting in their heads "you could open carry at the Capitol where you already CC - wouldn't that make a good pic come election time?" or somesuch... :)

    The issue with some of the demonstrations is simple; it is the zealots. These folks who descend on Starbucks, a private business, to make THEIR point. The people who show up with handguns that they claim do not meet the definition of firearm and then video the contact with police and repeat over and over, "Am I being detained, am I free to go", or refuse to leave with their long guns when asked to do so.
    Their actions are making ME rethink MY position. It is causing me to think about the image I want others to have of me and my beliefs.

    This. I'd love to be able to have the ability to choose to carry openly or concealed. Just not at the expense of being able to carry concealed, whether that be at a state law repeal level or at a "too many 30.06 places to avoid" level.
     
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    karlac

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    Bare means without covering. If the amendment read "the right to keep and bare arms" it would be nonsensical. That word is an adjective that describes a noun. BEAR is the word used in the amendment as a verb (intransitive verb). It means "to carry or posses" in this usage.

    Internet rule #1 ... correct someone's spelling, and you automatically make one yourself in the same post. "possess". ;)
     

    Mreed911

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    Internet rule #1 ... correct someone's spelling, and you automatically make one yourself in the same post. "possess". ;)

    That's funny, but technically it's not a spelling mistake. He wrote BARE... so he just used the wrong word, spelled correctly. :)
     

    Younggun

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    That's funny, but technically it's not a spelling mistake. He wrote BARE... so he just used the wrong word, spelled correctly. :)

    I don't think you got what he was saying. Do you possess a dictionary by any chance?
     

    karlac

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    Touché. And that's what everyone posting 30.06 needs to understand...


    Absolutely agree ... I can't imagine why on earth anyone in their right mind would want to point out an unlawful 30.06 sign to the poster. I've thought about it a few times when it comes to a municipality, but thus far have resisted that temptation ... if they're that damned stupid. Then again, it's my tax dollars that would be paying for a civil rights suit.
     

    karlac

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    Enjoyed the tête-à-tête, but gotta get me that second glass of "Texas Red" before dinner (grapes from Ft Stockton, TX, where else?), and my #1 rule is not to post after one glass. Hope I didn't offend anyone, and apologies to the OP for basically hijacking his thread.
     
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