Open carry of long arms in Texas (holstered Keltec sub 2000?)

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Texas

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Status

    Daniel M. Ramos

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 11, 2013
    24
    1
    Austin
    I have read up on the sources and my understanding is that it is legal to open carry a long arm in Texas in a "non threatening manner." Given that I have also heard of people being arrested and handcuffed for the open carry of a shotgun within city limits. Do any of y'all have experience with this part of our law or are any of y'all LE that could clarify that issue.

    What I am wondering is does the law protect me from being arrested by the police simply because they see me walking around with a side holstered and folded Keltec sub 2000? From what I am reading it should be legal to openly carry a holstered and folded sub 2000 but I am not sure if any has tried this in Texas.

    Am I reading too much into it?
     

    Koinonia

    Well-Known
    Rating - 100%
    20   0   0
    Sep 10, 2012
    1,207
    31
    San Antonio
    It wont prevent you from being arrested by law enforcement, if they do not know the law. Citys may also have (illegal, see state preemption) laws restricting carry. Its meerely a defense from prosecution, from what i think i know.
     

    cuate

    Well-Known
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 27, 2009
    1,842
    21
    Comanche Co., Texas
    We must consider that Law Enforcement when seeing a citizen carrying a long gun or shotgun out in public knows not if the carrier is a law abiding person or some nutcase, or an evil person intending on evil. LEOs have often gone overboard in such cases but a sensible Officer will usually not with a reasonable explation.
     

    Renegade

    SuperOwner
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 5, 2008
    10,651
    96
    Texas
    Put your KelTec in a backpack. That is what I do. Much easier to carry anyway.

    I would be interested though to know who makes a holster for a Sub2000.
     

    Daniel M. Ramos

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 11, 2013
    24
    1
    Austin
    The holster I speak of is not commercially made; however, the pattern is available online if you are willing to DIY. It doesn't look too difficult to make. Here is a thread where it is mentioned and the direct link to some pictures.
    Sub2000 C.R.A.S.H. holster question - Page 2 - KTOG - Kel Tec Owners Group Forum

    C.R.A.S.H Holster With Kel Tec Rifle And Dual Magazine Pouch As Worn Front Photo by tron123 | Photobucket

    Here is the pattern:
    http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t249/GreenWolf70/KT-2000Holster.jpg
     

    Daniel M. Ramos

    New Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 11, 2013
    24
    1
    Austin
    The reason I would want to do so is simple. If we have a right to do so in Texas and we do not exercise it, then it is a right surrendered because of fear of the police and the lack of knowledge LE may have of the law. I would hope that if LE saw a Texan carrying a legal firearm in a legal manner they would not freak out and detain them in an illegal manner, but we all know that the real world is quite different. Does a folded up weapon that is not in an immediately operable state even able to fall into the category of "threatening?" I also thought it would be a great way to be able to carry around a portable weapon without having to pay for CHL. Another thing to consider is that if there is a way to open carry it would be a much more visible deterrent to potential criminals, that much is obvious.
     

    Mexican_Hippie

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Feb 4, 2009
    12,288
    21
    Fort Worth
    1) I wouldn't do it to try and provoke a stop. That's a poor use of your time and LEO time.

    2) If you do get stopped be very polite and make sure you understand the law. Don't act like that loudmouth in Waco did. People tend to respond to attitude with attitude of their own. Its better to keep your mouth shut and fight any issues with a lawyer present anyway if a situation devolves.

    3) I've carried a shotgun openly in downtown San Antonio after buying it (was headed to my vehicle). I had an officer stop to talk to me. He told me to make sure I keep it pointed in a safe direction and not to play with it while I was walking around (I wasn't doing either, but he had no clue who I was or if I was safe). I didn't act like an idiot, and neither did he. As long as you're not looking for trouble or copping an attitude I wouldn't worry about LEOs if what you're doing is legal.

    4) Be aware of any school zones
     

    SIG_Fiend

    Administrator
    Moderator
    TGT Supporter
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Feb 21, 2008
    7,154
    46
    Austin, TX
    Nothing prevents you from being arrested for anything at any time, even if there are no legitimate charges or whether you were even violating any law. A large amount of law enforcement is left to the best judgment of the officer, and every officer has a different background / outlook on things.

    Technically, by state law, it is legal to carry a long gun in the state of Texas, openly or concealed, as long as it's not in a manner calculated to cause alarm. Walking around downtown, rifle in hands with a mag in it, at the low or high ready...yeah, that would IMO fall under "calculated to cause alarm" and you can bet you're going to be subdued and arrested in a very aggressive manner. LEOs are not going to respond kindly to something like that. I was just throwing that situation out there to highlight the extreme side of things.

    Rifle slung around the back, possibly without a mag in it? Something like that would be about the least threatening manner. It kind of depends on the city. Rural small town city? Yeah, no one will probably bat an eye in some small towns, and heck there might be some neighbors doing the same as well. In Austin, the liberal stronghold of Texas? I would warrant a guess that you stand a good chance of being arrested. At the least, I think it's a good chance you will be disarmed at gun point, handcuffed, thrown in the back of a squad car for an hour or two while the LEOs try to get a handle on the situation and figure out if you are a nutjob or not, and if you violated any law. You can bet you will also make it into the Statesman as well. I don't think things will turn out quite as nicely as you expect.

    This is the problem I have with a lot of open carry advocates, they're all about provocation. I support open carry for the simple fact that I do not personally believe the government has the right to dictate how you should carry, and I think it should be everyone's individual choice. That being said, intentionally trying to put it in front of people's faces, in the manner that some open carry advocates do....for the average uninformed person that doesn't know anything about firearms, I personally think it just alienates firearms owners from them even further. In some cases it makes firearms owners look even crazier, in their eyes. Socially, our modern society has conditioned people to be mentally weak and afraid of the mere sight of a firearm. I personally think it's ridiculous, but that doesn't change the fact that large segments of our population feel that way. We need to consider that in how we portray ourselves.

    In my honest opinion, society is different nowadays. As an idealist, I personally wish things were different. I think it would be great if certain aspects of our society were more like Israel, namely with lots of people open carrying long guns, handguns, etc. I think that would be excellent, and a sign of a strong society. That's not the society we live in. Guns have been socially conditioned as "unacceptable" for decades, to the point where it's even a social faux pas to discuss them in public in many areas. It's bullshit, but that's the way it is in many areas of the country, including Texas. Considering that, I personally think that in modern urban areas like Austin, San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, etc. that it honestly doesn't make ANY sense open carrying a long gun unless maybe you're talking about a disaster situation such as New Orleans during Katrina. It just doesn't make sense. It draws too much attention. Concealed carrying a handgun is much more realistic. If you absolutely want a long gun around, personally I think what makes the most sense is coming up with a concealable long gun setup. Something like an AR or folding stock rifle shoved in to a backpack. That's discreet, while still allowing for the enhanced capability of a rifle.
     

    txinvestigator

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    14,205
    96
    Ft Worth, TX
    I have read up on the sources and my understanding is that it is legal to open carry a long arm in Texas in a "non threatening manner."
    That is not exactly true. 42.01 of the penal code makes it unlawful to display a firearm in a public place in a "manner calculated to alarm". I am not aware of any case law, nor were the attorney's at a class given by attorney's I attended a couple of weeks ago, that narrowly defines "manner calculated to alarm"

    Given that I have also heard of people being arrested and handcuffed for the open carry of a shotgun within city limits. Do any of y'all have experience with this part of our law or are any of y'all LE that could clarify that issue.

    What I am wondering is does the law protect me from being arrested by the police simply because they see me walking around with a side holstered and folded Keltec sub 2000? From what I am reading it should be legal to openly carry a holstered and folded sub 2000 but I am not sure if any has tried this in Texas.

    Am I reading too much into it?

    You are asking the wrong question, but I'll answer it. No, the law does not protect you from being arrested. The police only need probable cause to believe you calculated to alarm. That will be based on the officer's experience and training, and your actions and location. The totality of the circumstances will be considered. You might well find yourself arrested. You might have the charges dismissed or be found not guilty in trial, but nothing prevent an arrest nor makes one unlawful.
     

    txinvestigator

    TGT Addict
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    14,205
    96
    Ft Worth, TX
    It wont prevent you from being arrested by law enforcement, if they do not know the law. Citys may also have (illegal, see state preemption) laws restricting carry. Its meerely a defense from prosecution, from what i think i know.

    LE that KNOWS the law could legally arrest such a person. And there is no such thing as a defense FROM prosecution.
     
    Status

    Support

    Sponsors

    Greeneye Tactical
    silencers
    third coast
    DK Firearms
    Tyrant Designs
    Every Day Man
    Shroud
    Shroud
    Smith Sights

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    105,089
    Messages
    2,483,167
    Members
    32,562
    Latest member
    Dooklear
    Top Bottom