Guns International

Opposite of concealed carry

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  • TexasRedneck

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    TexasRedneck,

    NEWS FLASH: IF/WHEN everyone can LAWFULLY bear arms, that includes EVERYONE & we LEOs will NOT be able disarm the PREDATORS, UNTIL AFTER they commit a VIOLENT CRIME (IF THEN).

    IOW, the fact that he shouldn't have been able to carry a gun, much less buy one, didn't stop him, did it? Which is exactly why the rest of society needs to wake up and be armed at all times.
    Lynx Defense
     

    Axxe55

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    More than a few courts have ruled on this, as referenced in my Post #50 in which I provided the cases and links to the cases.

    Simply asking a person to show a permit for behaving in totally lawful manner, when no crime has been committed, is as several courts have ruled, a 4th Amendment violation.

    If an officer observes you open carrying, and asks you to see your permit, and you say, "Sure officer, here it is." Well, you in essence waived your rights.

    To put some perspective in this, since it is pertaining to the 4th Amendment, how many would allow a LE officer to perform a search of their home or vehicle, without a search warrant? Same principle applies here as well.
     

    justmax

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    I assure you - I'm quite well educated regarding liberal trope and don't assume otherwise. I can assure you as well, nothing scares me and I didn't indicate that in my post. My paranoia stemmed from just that split second where I move from condition yellow and as a result find it necessary to physically stop someone from accessing my open carry firearm. If it can be seen, it's a potential target for predators. No different than leaving your keys in the ignition or a $20,000 Rolex on your wrist.
    I agree with you on all the points you make. Being sort of mildly handicapped, I would have a difficult time with the physical aspect of retainment. Besides, being older and slower, I want that extra second of "surprise". In my opinion the best part for me about OC is not having to worry about printing or accidentally flashing.
     

    satx78247

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    I don’t think criminals open carry as they are trying to avoid any undo attention!

    Right2Carry,

    "Our oh so fine" Roger B. R_____________________, the DANGEROUS lunatic, who came after me with a .22 semi-automatic rifle, was certainly carrying OPENLY. = The folks, who SAW him in Jefferson Parish & carrying a loaded rifle, were NOT very concerned, until he started ranting about killing someone.
    (What quickly got him apprehended by JPSD Deputies was BRAGGING that he was going to go "smoke the b@st@rd who locked me up at St. Francisville". = Even in Fat City, threatening to kill a LA cop gets you picked-up.)

    ADDENDA: Fwiw, my (back then) wife & I sent Mrs. Patel, who owned the coffee shop & reported the ARMED LUNATIC's ranting to the JPSD, a dozen roses & a sincere THANK YOU NOTE. = I'm convinced that she likely saved me from being wounded or killed.

    NOTE: ONE of my "pet peeves" is that all too many jurisdictions OFTEN release VIOLENT "crazies", VICIOUS predators & other VERY dangerous subjects, who should remain locked up forever, for NO reason except that the administration doesn't want to pay for their continued incarceration. = In the vast majority of cases, the released inmates revert right back to preying upon innocent people.
    (Closing the State Hospitals & releasing the mental patients therein was FAR more costly than keeping the institutions open & the patients in custody, even if the human cost is disregarded.)

    yours, satx
     
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    Rhino

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    I will say only this about open carry. If you are going to, please use a holster that is designed for sufficient retention, and train yourself on how to defeat that retention to the point it becomes muscle memory and not a conscious thought.

    All of which is also a concern with concealed carry as evidenced by the guy who got smoked as he fumbled for his carry at that Fort Worth Church of Christ shooting.
     

    oldag

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    OBVIOUSLY, TX license plates are "linked to" the list of CCW licenses because last February I was stopped at just about "oh dark thirty" by a DPS female trooper.
    The officer walked up to my car & informed me that I had a tail-light that was "non-functional" & told me to go get it fixed, ASAP & "sent me on my way", after asking what I was carrying.
    (She had NOT asked to see my DL/CCW, so firearms licenses MUST be in her computer.)



    yours, satx

    Correct, most jurisdictions have the ability to link to CHL's from registration.
     

    oldag

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    Right2Carry,

    "Our oh so fine" Roger B. R_____________________, the DANGEROUS lunatic, who came after me with a .22 semi-automatic rifle, was certainly carrying OPENLY. = The folks, who SAW him in Jefferson Parish & carrying a loaded rifle, were NOT very concerned, until he started ranting about killing someone.
    (What quickly got him apprehended by JPSD Deputies was BRAGGING that he was going to go "smoke the b@st@rd who locked me up at St. Francisville". = Even in Fat City, threatening to kill a LA cop gets you picked-up.)

    NOTE: ONE of my "pet peeves" is that all too many jurisdictions OFTEN release VIOLENT "crazies", VICIOUS predators & other VERY dangerous subjects, who should remain locked up forever, for NO reason except that the administration doesn't want to pay for their continued incarceration. = In the vast majority of cases, the released inmates revert right back to preying upon innocent people.
    (Closing the State Hospitals & releasing the mental patients therein was FAR more costly than keeping the institutions open & the patients in custody, even if the human cost is disregarded.)

    yours, satx

    Of course, there are exceptions.

    But his point is valid in general. Criminals don't want to call attention to themselves, they typically will carry concealed.
     

    Hoji

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    All of which is also a concern with concealed carry as evidenced by the guy who got smoked as he fumbled for his carry at that Fort Worth Church of Christ shooting.
    Yep. 90+% of my handgun training revolves around drawing and shooting from retention while moving at close distance. I post a lot of range day threads with boring one hole groups at further distances because it is fun, but for every one of those threads, there are a bunch of range trips that are all train,train,train that never become a thread.
     

    oldag

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    I agree with you on all the points you make. Being sort of mildly handicapped, I would have a difficult time with the physical aspect of retainment. Besides, being older and slower, I want that extra second of "surprise". In my opinion the best part for me about OC is not having to worry about printing or accidentally flashing.
    Printing is really not an issue.

    A lot of folks don't really notice OC, much less concealed. And they are likely to assume it is a cell phone case.
     

    Rhino

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    I prefer concealed carry. I believe it safer for various reasons.

    I think that’s situationally dependent, and that most of the guys that say that are kidding themselves.

    If you were on active duty with a real, known threat I think most reasonable people would prefer an open carry holster as the police do, or as a military person would. If I’m at the ranch and my primary concern is snakes or if I’m chasing hogs or coyotes, it’s also preferable to have it openly carried on the hip.

    I think most of what prevents people from open carrying is a combination of questionable teaching by people obviously invested in concealed carry, fear of confrontation or public opinion, OR reasonable concerns about your own situational awareness and reaction capabilities. Most of that is a mindset and training issue.

    I suggest you start open carrying everywhere you think you can comfortably do so, and gradually take it out where you aren't.
     
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    leVieux

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    I believe most here don’t seek to cause problems for police. Indeed, I am always glad to speak with or otherwise assist our Officers, and have found TODAY’s LEO’s to be uniformly courteous. I emphasize that our Officers also serve as first-line PUBLIC SAFETY agents, in addition to being enforcers. Many negative attitudes remain from the days of abusive Officers, over 30 years back. Our authorities have learned to police themselves. At age 77, I well recall when TP&W Officers were uniformly considered our enemies, unlike today. In the 1960’s & ‘70’s, I saw numerous instances of DPS Officer abuses. That just alienated the public. I also remind Officers that the Armed Citizen is available to assist them. “Officer, armed Citizen here, do you need assistance?” Perhaps we should recall the Andrews TX rest-stop Officer rescue by deer Hunters; or the Baton Rouge incident in which a passer-by had to shoot & kill a criminal who had overpowered an Officer & was beating him nearly to death? leVieux
     

    leVieux

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    I think that’s situationally dependent, and that most of the guys that say that are kidding themselves.

    If you were on active duty with a real, known threat I think most reasonable people would prefer an open carry holster as the police do, or as a military person would. If I’m at the ranch and my primary concern is snakes or if I’m chasing hogs or coyotes, it’s also preferable to have it openly carried on the hip.

    I think most of what prevents people from open carrying is a combination of questionable teaching by people obviously invested in concealed carry, fear of confrontation or public opinion, OR reasonable concerns about your own situational awareness and reaction capabilities. Most of that is a mindset and training issue.

    I suggest you start open carrying everywhere you think you can comfortably do so, and gradually take it out where you aren't.

    Most of us do, too; but that really isn’t the issue.
     

    cycleguy2300

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    As noted elsewhere, you are agreeing to what could be an illegal stop. I guess San Antonio needs every LTC holder to start open carrying 24/7 to break this type of behavior. Either that or I am sure we can sell some LTC badges for LTC holders to "proudly" display (sarcasm).
    I have to admit, I open carry only when going to my ranch land. I always open carry there because of critters.
    I have seriously thought though if we want constitutional carry in Texas that we should encourage all LTC holders to open carry everywhere for at least a week at a time to get the population unafraid of open carry. I say that even though I don't personally want to open carry most of the time. I prefer to appear anonymous.
    There is nothing preventing a Texas Peace Officer from seeing your pistol and asking you about it, any more than anyone else can. It only becomes a detention when you are not, or reasonable would not feel free to leave.

    I often begin an encounter as a consensual encounter if I have mere suspicion, for example an occupied car sitting running, but legally parked (did it last night). I'll knock and talk if they choose to engage. Sometimes its nothing, other times I can develop RS/PC for a detention or search through plain view or odor while we chat.

    If a cop came up to me while I was open carrying and immediately asked/demanded an LTC , which I don't need (2a & PC46.15), I would likely be a bit put out, but I would still present my department ID or explain whats up. Why bow up? I'm proudly showing off my big scary pistol, why not show a LTC when asked. Do you have to without being detained. No, they cannot "demand" to see it without a detention as you are no longer free to refuse. I would remind the officer afterwards they are dancing in the razor's edge of an illegal detention and if the officer got snappy, I'd ask for his supervisor.

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    cycleguy2300

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    Rotor,

    As an old retired peace officer, I do NOT "do well" with "COULD BE" or "MIGHT BE" or even "MAYBE".
    (So far I have seen "no bright line" answer to whether the local custom of LEOs to "check" every OPEN CARRIER is lawful or NOT LAWFUL.
    I do KNOW that the stated policy of SAPD, BCSD & all 4 Constable's Offices is that they ALWAYS check OPEN CARRIERS to see if you are licensed.

    Do any of our members KNOW FOR SURE whether "checking for having a handgun license" is actually a "Terry violation" or not. = IF you are a member of the Texas Bar, that would be NICE & far more persuasive than some NON-attorney's OPINION..

    yours, satx
    Asking is not a detention since the person is free to refuse/leave.

    "Demanding" is a detention due to the fact the LTC holder is REQUIRED to present the LTC and in no longer free to refuse or leave until it is presented.

    Any one can ASK to see your LTC, even a peace officer, but when a peace office DEMANDS to see it, it becomes a detention and there needs to be reasonable, particularized and articulable suspicion the person is or about to be engaged in criminal activity.

    Courts have held detaining a driver solely to check DL status is not a reasonable stop absent other information.

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    satx78247

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    Asking is not a detention since the person is free to refuse/leave.

    "Demanding" is a detention due to the fact the LTC holder is REQUIRED to present the LTC and in no longer free to refuse or leave until it is presented.

    Any one can ASK to see your LTC, even a peace officer, but when a peace office DEMANDS to see it, it becomes a detention and there needs to be reasonable, particularized and articulable suspicion the person is or about to be engaged in criminal activity.

    Courts have held detaining a driver solely to check DL status is not a reasonable stop absent other information.

    Sent from your mom's house using Tapatalk

    cycleguy2300,

    AGREED, though other court decisions have found that simply stopping random people/checking a DL and/or "operating a DWI/DUI check-station" is NOT "an unlawful detention" under TERRY. = SORRY but that is FACT.
    (MD,VA & WV are VERY ACTIVE in operating "check stations" that MAY delay some drivers for up to an hour. = I've seen "lines of cars & trucks" that were at least a MILE in length.)

    FYI, I once got a VA Deputy Sheriff "in deep kimchi" because he stopped me (He later claimed because of my NRA Life-member sticker on the PU) & demanded that I tell him why I was carrying a total of 9 CASED rifles/shotguns/handguns in the cab of my F250 truck.
    (I started out POLITELY saying, "I'm moving to Berkeley County WV & this is SOME of the last possessions that I'm moving.")

    When the deputy "got ugly" & started RANTING that "- - - nobody needs that many guns", I politely asked that he call a supervisor.
    (I'll never know how UGLY that things MIGHT have gotten between us inasmuch as I was tired./cold/hungry & wanted to get to my new place, as a VA State Trooper arrived on the scene, talked to the deputy & then to me, returned to his unit & called "somebody" on the radio. = About 10 or less minutes later, a SD lieutenant arrived at the roadside scene, walked over to me & said, "Unless you wish to make a formal report, you are free to leave." (PAUSE) "Let me handle this situation within the department. - Is that OK with you??" - I said, "YES. That's fine.", I handed the LT my business card, with my new phone number written on the back & went on to The Mountain Lair for supper. = About 2 weeks later, I heard "through the cop grapevine" that the nasty-tempered/hateful deputy was no longer employed by the SD.)

    yours, satx
     
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