Parks

[RPB]

I wrote to State and US legislators and the Governor, and State and National Parks Services, and US Fish and Wildlife Dept. concerning parks due to an apparent issue.

I know city parks are ok, State Parks are ok, LCRA parks are ok, National Parks are ok after Feb 22, 2010.
BUT US Army Corps of Engineers properties do not honor Texas Concealed Handgun Licenses and forbid conceled carry of a loaded handgun on their federal property.

The issue/question was regarding the fact that some State/County/City parks are on land leased from the US Army Corps of Engineers.

Here are some replies I got to my questions on that issue.

---
From NPS.gov (National Parks Service)
The National Park Service and the US Army Corps of Engineers are two
separate government agencies. For more information: www.nps.gov or
US Army Corps of Engineers - HQ
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From U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service:
Thank you for using Recreation.gov for your camping needs.

I'll be happy to assist you with this issue.

The National Parks are managed by the National Park Service, none by the
ACOE.

Sincerely,
Recreation.gov
-----------------
From JOHN CORNYN
United States Senator

Dear Mr. B:

Thank you for contacting me about federal firearms laws. I appreciate having the benefit of your comments on this matter.

It is essential to safeguard law-abiding citizen's right to own and use firearms designed for legitimate purposes such as hunting, target shooting, collecting, and self protection. Restricting this right runs counter to the intent of our Founding Fathers, who expressly guaranteed that citizens would retain the right to keep and bear arms.

As you may know, the Bureau of Land Management and the United States Forest Service allow the transporting and carrying of firearms on federal lands in accordance with the laws of the host state where these two agencies manage lands.

However, the National Parks Service (NPS) and the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) are governed by separate federal statutes and have developed differing sets of firearms regulations.

I believe the inconsistency in firearms regulations on federal lands is confusing and burdensome to those who enjoy the outdoors. Therefore, I will continue to support legislation to require both the NPS and the FWS to honor host state gun laws that govern firearm possession.

I appreciate the opportunity to represent Texans in the United States Senate, and you may be certain that I will keep your views in mind should the Senate consider relevant legislation during the 111th Congress. Thank you for taking the time to contact me.

Sincerely,

JOHN CORNYN
United States Senator
-------
From

The Governor, Rick Perry, who replied and forwarded my issues to Carter Smith, the Executive Director of TPWD
I just got a letter from Carter Smith... dated January 12, 2010. This is the only definitive answer on the State Park/COE issue.

"State park properties leased from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers are subject to the rules and regulations of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. Therefore, a loaded, concealed handgun carried by a valid license holder is allowed within any Texas State Park."

"If you have any further questions about firearms in Texas State Parks, pleae contact Mr. Wes Masur, State Park Law Enforcement Director, at XXXXX or via email at XXXXXX"

Carter Smith, Executive Director of TPWD
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The letter from Carter Smith through Rick Perry clears up that question regarding State Parks on COE property, where all I got before were the following:

From: State Representative Jimmie Don Aycock


http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/

Mr. B, please visit the above website for a list of State parks. Thank you for providing us with your thoughts.


Office of State Representative Jimmie Don Aycock

P.O. Box 2910

Austin, TX 78768

512-463-0684 (office)

512-463-8987 (fax)
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From TPWD (just asking, but not through the Governor that time)(Didn't exactly answer the question, but they tried, so I'm glad Rick Perry got Carter Smith to answer)

Dear Mr. B.​

Thank you for your interest in the Texas State Parks.

I did find a link for the Army Corps of Engineers Parks in Texas at http://www.swf-wc.usace.army.mil/navarro/Recreation/Parks/Corpsparks.asp

I can not speak on the Rules and Regulations regarding handguns in these parks, however the Texas State Parks policy is as follows: A person can carry a loaded concealed handgun in Texas State Parks with a current and valid CHL license at anytime. Please remember that you must continue to follow all CHL rules while carrying in State Parks.
If you need further information, please contact the Law Enforcement Division. We hope to see you at a Texas State Park soon.

Park Information​

Texas Parks and Wildlife

Ph: 512-389-8900
------------------​

This is what got the actual answer:

From: Rick Perry, Governor​

December 28, 2009​

Dear Mr. B:​

Thank you for taking the time to contact the Office of the Governor. We understand that you are​

concerned.​

I am asking Carter Smith, Executive Director of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, for​

his staff’s assistance in reviewing and responding both to you and this office on the information​

shared.​

Please let us know whenever we may be of service in the future.​

Sincerely,

Constituent Communication Division​

​

Office of the Governor

------------------------------------​

Useless Letter from US Senator Troy Fraser:​

....... Here's the US Army Corps of engineers' website if you want to research. I've printed a list from the website of all the Army Corps of Engineers Texas lakes.

Please feel free to contact me if I can be of service.​

Troy Fraser

State Senator​

(I already knew the website, but it didn't address the issue, and I may have been the one that gave his office the website in the first place)​

 

[RPB]

The issue arose due to situations like :

Whitney State Park being a State Park where we could carry as licensees, but Lake Whitney being a US Army Corps of Engineers lake.


Still, areas such as the Harris County Park at Addicks Dam, in Houston, leased from the US Army Corps of Engineers, and any city park leased from the US Army Corps of Engineers ...????

You'll have to do your own research writing politicians on those particulars if any question arises.

These replies, and any you get, may help decide future elections too, hopefully. (Assuming you desire a government which responds to the people)

I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Cyberlink]

It is essential to safeguard law-abiding citizen's right to own and use firearms designed for legitimate purposes such as hunting, target shooting, collecting, and self protection. Restricting this right runs counter to the intent of our Founding Fathers, who expressly guaranteed that citizens would retain the right to keep and bear arms.

And here I thought our founding fathers codified that right for the legitimate purpose of hunting Senators and Congressman.

 

[RPB]

National Wildlife Refuges


National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges. I emailed the Mc Fadden Wildlife Refuge and asked if it was now legal to conceal carry if you have the correct and uptodate license and got this response.

Mr.B

As of now if you have a current Texas Concealed Weapons permit you are allowed to carry on NWR. In addition, any violations of the state law will be taken in account. I suggest that you review the state statutes and I hope that you have a nice time on the refuge. If you have any further questions please contact me at this email address or the numbers listed below.

Thank you,

Chris Davis
Refuge Law Enforcement Officer
Texas Chenier Plain NWR Complex
509 Washington St. Box # 278
Anahuac, Texas 77514
O: 409-267-3337
C: 409-370-7367
F: 409-267-4314

(This is copied, by permission, from Redyaker who posted it at the TexasKayakFisherman forum ... many CHLs launch kayaks and fish there)

 

[RPB]

Since Carter Smith, Executive Director Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept., said to ask Wes Masur any furher questions, and questions exist about being in say Lake Whitney State Park and Launching a kayak into U S Army COE Lake Whitney itself, or Lake Granger or Georgetown or Ray Roberts USACOE lakes...

TPWD Response to being asked about such situations:

TPWD Response is:

Sir,
Thanks for your question. Since you are on the waters operated and
managed by the COE you would be required to abide by their rules and
laws, therefore this would be a question for them. As I understand it,
you would not be allowed to carry a weapon on their waterway.
Please let me know if I can be of further assistance,
Wes Masur
Director, State Park Law Enforcement
512-389-8001 Office
512-389-8559 Fax



So, at this time, I can fish from the bank in the State Park, but not venture into the waters owned by the USACOE with my Loaded Concealed Handgun which the state of Texas licensed me to carry.

 

[RPB]

Top part of this post copied from another forum; bottom blue part I wrote.

The TPWD legal division has been in contact with the COE and researched the issue of carrying concealed on a state park leased from the COE.

I have been informed by the legal division at TPWD that the letter by Mr. Carter Smith was in error and that it is indeed illegal to carry a firearm in a TEXAS STATE PARK leased by TPWD from the COE, as per federal laws. State parks NOT on COE properties are legal for concealed carry. So, if you visit a park, you should verify first if it is COE lands and if it is, carrying on the park will be illegal. This also apparently goes for keeping a firearm in your vehicle. Although keeping a firearm in your vehicle is legal under state laws, the Federal law prevails.

Understand, a federal law would have to be enforced by federal law enforcement officers. So, it is not likely that you would get a ticket for carrying on COE lands. But, if you have to use the firearm for defensive purposes you would be subject to federal law and I would presume open yourself up to Federal Criminal Charges as a result.

I am not giving legal advice nor am I recommending carrying illegally. I am only laying out the law as it has been explained to me.

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I contacted Senator John Cornyn and he is very interested in the matter.
He is requesting more details. He sent me a letter which is NOT a standard form letter, along with a privacy information release form.
I'd like to use the examples of us not being able to park in the COE parking lots and not being able to use our State Parks which are leased from the COE at such places like Ray Roberts Lake/Park, Whitney State Park/lake.
I'd also like to use as examples boating/kayaking/canoeing down rivers at such places as Brazos River Authority at San Gabriel River, where it is legal, except while passing through the boundaries of Lake Georgetown and Granger Lake, both of which are USACOE. And illustrate how the USACOE has no service to check in our guns and taxi our guns to the other end of the lake for us to pick them up while we navigate down the river;(like a no-smoking in an elevator sign was unenforceable if there was no ashtray to deposit a cigarette into).
I believe there is a CITY park in Georgetown on the river, that is USACOE "claims" is their property, but can't give exact GPS coordinates to me; only "approximate boundary maps" (NO signs on the river, no property line painted on the water across the river and "approximate boundary maps, available on the internet" seem vague ambiguous and overly broad, like expecting you to obey a speed limit sign when none is posted for you to see while driving down a highway; and no "YOu are now entering xxxx County" sign even if you knew it was a different speed limit when you enter xxxx County, you wouldn't know WHEN you were in it or not with no sign) What if I anchor in Brazos River Authority water, I had no intention to enter the USACOE property, but currents and wind carried me 2 feet onto their water, which was river water moments ago where I was before the wind direction changed? I didn't see the boundary line, no sign, and my GPS map doesn't have "approximate coordinates" that they wouldn't or couln't give me.
Also examples such as Addiks Dam where there is a Harris County Park, owned by the USACOE.
I'll have to research the website at USACOE, but any others you can think of offhand?
He wants me to compile details as well as sign a privacy release form. I'll do it in my "spare time"
Please feel free to contact Senator Cornyn too.
Contact Form - Contact - United States Senator John Cornyn, Texas

I don't really feel qualified to represent everyone as the "token" guy .... but I'll sign the release and do what I can .... you guys should too. Otherwise, you better check if your city park is on USACOE property

IANAL