Pistol Brace Amnesty/Registration

[toddnjoyce]

Washington Gun Law retracts and corrects...


All Texans not covered...

Lookie there. That guy doesn’t make a mistake often, but I give him credit because he usually admits to it.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I can think of several ways it could go if that happens.

1. ATF automatically rescinds all the amnesty registrations (not likely)
2. ATF agrees to rescind the registrations at the request of the individual
3. ATF notifies you that you have a choice to either rescind the registration or pay the $200 tax
4. Nothing changes, you have a registered SBR.

Lots of ways this could go depending on which arguments win out. APA violations are one thing, but GOA went in with all barrels blazing on APA, 2A, and 5A violations whereas SAF and FPC each took different routes.

Personally, I’m hoping for GOA’s arguments to come out on top because they are making arguments that, in light of Bruen, could reset the entire table when it comes to the NFA.

 

[benenglish]

they are making arguments that, in light of Bruen, could reset the entire table when it comes to the NFA.

Scalia set out to make the NFA unassailable in Heller by saying that Miller does not say what it says. If you're right, if Bruen is taken to that end, it could crash head-on with Heller.

That would be a serious f'ing mess.

If I were a pessimistic sort, I'd say that whenever the Supremes just make up stuff, like Roe, qualified immunity, Heller making the NFA sacred, and Bruen (arguably) contradicting the language Scalia pulled out of his ass for Heller, the stage is set for chaos.

Remember the verbal arguments in Heller? Scalia was repulsed by the notion that anything could threaten the NFA. Well, Bruen could. It could be used to force the court to pay attention to Miller..which would throw everything into question.

The next couple of decades are going to be way too interesting for the 2A.

ETA - Edited to add detail.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Scalia set out to make the NFA unassailable in Heller. If you're right, if Bruen is taken to that end, it could crash head-on with Heller..

Honestly, I don’t think GOA is going to win out on all arguments, but they are making them. When you get a chance, read GOA’s petition. On the more interesting side, GOA argues the $200 tax is an unconstitutional unapportioned direct tax.

https://www.gunowners.org/wp-content/uploads/GOA-Paxton-Brace-Lawsuit-FINAL-COMPLAINT.pdf#page114

 

[majormadmax]

I can think of several ways it could go if that happens.

1. ATF automatically rescinds all the amnesty registrations (not likely) Agreed, not likely
2. ATF agrees to rescind the registrations at the request of the individual Possibly becomes an option
3. ATF notifies you that you have a choice to either rescind the registration or pay the $200 tax Very unlikely
4. Nothing changes, you have a registered SBR. Very likely

 

[gll]

Lookie there. That guy doesn’t make a mistake often, but I give him credit because he usually admits to it.

It really bothers me that the courts would consider Texas to be it's employees and not it's people... Really boisters the conspiracy theory that governments are really corporations...

 

[toddnjoyce]

It really bothers me that the courts would consider Texas to be it's employees and not it's people... Really boisters the conspiracy theory that governments are really corporations...

The courts don’t; Paxton didn’t sue on behalf of the residents of Texas; he sued on behalf of state agencies and employees. The argument he made was state agencies and employees have standing as a party because they are being forced by the federal government to incur an unrecoverable expense in order to do their job.

 

[TheMailMan]

So here’s something to consider. If the APA violations are upheld, a remedy could be for ATF to render void any of the special F1s with an accompanying order to ATF to remove those items from the registry.

That’s why I say it’s going to be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few years.

I don't believe any of the lawsuits even address the issue. Since the courts are only supposed to deal with what's before them my guess is that you would still have a legally registered SBR.

 

[TheMailMan]

I can think of several ways it could go if that happens.

1. ATF automatically rescinds all the amnesty registrations (not likely)
2. ATF agrees to rescind the registrations at the request of the individual
3. ATF notifies you that you have a choice to either rescind the registration or pay the $200 tax
4. Nothing changes, you have a registered SBR.

The Government can't later collect a tax they chose to not collect when it was due. There will be NO retroactive tax in this case.

Also, since the approvals didn't come with a stamp, there's no tax to pay. The stamp exists merely to indicate one has paid the tax.

The approval paperwork is what makes you legal.

 

[DougC]

For regular readers of this forum and especially this topic you might look at YouTube gun pundits trying to estimate the number of people not complying with new pistol brace rule. If you find one that makes sense let us know. Here's one even when math is wrong/correct take your pick. At least he can throw shade on self and not wait for internet trolls. He says if he knew his math he would have gone to medical school. Go figure. (And he has been told what a god-dam idiot he is on channel but he is married man and is reminded of that all the time. )

How America is Not Complying with the Pistol Brace Rule. Even When You Use the Correct Math.​

 

[gll]

The courts don’t; Paxton didn’t sue on behalf of the residents of Texas; he sued on behalf of state agencies and employees. The argument he made was state agencies and employees have standing as a party because they are being forced by the federal government to incur an unrecoverable expense in order to do their job.

I don't know what I would do if you weren't here to understand this shit for me...

 

[cav2108541]

Update to Pistol Brace Ruling.

ATF Requests Funding for Pistol Brace Amnesty Registration Program

Uncovered information shows that ATF has plans to force gun owners to register firearms through a new ATF Pistol Brace Amnesty program.

www.ammoland.com

Even if I had one, my answer would be NO to their fake registration scheme.

 

[cav2108541]

I respect the scotus. They trump all, and any "president" that defies them is just breaking the law and if you follow their orders, you're breaking the law too. **** unjust laws written by tyrants.

Who are SCOTUS going to report them to when they refuse or ignore SCOTUS? Lincoln had the Maryland Legislature arrested and jailed because they were about to vote for secession. SCOTUS said he had to release them. Lincoln ignored SCOTUS. Kept them locked up until the war was over. (maybe SCOTUS sent John Wilkes Booth to even the score, eh?) Our current government is being run by a pack of criminals. They are breaking the law every day. See anything changing? If voting meant anything, they wouldn't let us do it.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I don't believe any of the lawsuits even address the issue..

For sake of example, I believe all three argue an APA violation since there was not at least 30 days between publication date and effective date AND the requisite process for immediate effectiveness wasn’t followed.

The courts could decide that was an illegal action by the government any registrations are fruits from a poisoned tree that has to be remedied.

Another argument presented is the difference between what was proposed and what was final was so great that APA was violated and the published rule itself is illegal and the definitions in the CFR have to revert to what they were on 30 Jan 2023. That creates a whole number of other remedy options.

Or, GOA gets lucky and wins on the 2A argument and the courts strikes the applicable provisions of NFA34 as unconstitutional and braced pistols are declared protected arms. Different remedy options there, too.

 

[DougC]

Better late than never, NRA joins the battle.

The National Rifle Association of America (“NRA”) today announced it is intervening in a pending case to protect its members from the “pistol brace rule” promulgated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (“ATF”).

And in further news:

The Second Amendment Foundation today said it welcomes the National Rifle Association
in it’s request to join in a federal lawsuit filed by SAF and its associates in a challenge of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ new “arm brace rule.”

 

[Otto_Mation]

Better late than never, NRA joins the battle.

The National Rifle Association of America (“NRA”) today announced it is intervening in a pending case to protect its members from the “pistol brace rule” promulgated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (“ATF”).

They call me constantly for a donation. I tell them that I no longer am donating to the NRA and I am donating to the organizations that are using our donations to fight for our 2nd amendment rights not on suits for Wayne Lapierre. Then I hang up. And I am a life Endowment member.

 

[majormadmax]

Anyone get a Form 1 approved under ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F yet?

I'm still only at 34 days, so I am not expecting an answer soon; but I know others submitted well before I did.

Their website (last updated on 1 May 2023!) is showing the average eForm 1 turn around time is still 40 days...

Current Processing Times | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Last updated August 2, 2023. Statistical information on average processing times of applications that are filled out correctly and completely.

www.atf.gov

 

[popper]

Personally I don't see any value in ATF SBR laws. Implemented when bad guys outgunned LE, not really applicable anymore. Just a means to disarm the public.

 

[Bozz10mm]

Anyone get a Form 1 approved under ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F yet?

I'm still only at 34 days, so I am not expecting an answer soon; but I know others submitted well before I did.

Their website (last updated on 1 May 2023!) is showing the average eForm 1 turn around time is still 40 days...

Current Processing Times | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Last updated August 2, 2023. Statistical information on average processing times of applications that are filled out correctly and completely.

www.atf.gov

I think Mailman has, but he sent his in early. I'm at 31 days. Wonder if ATF is holding off or slow rolling processing them pending the out come of the law suits. Maybe they are trying to save money and manpower by not pursuing something that inevitably will be over turned.

 

[majormadmax]

I think Mailman has, but he sent his in early. I'm at 31 days. Wonder if ATF is holding off or slow rolling processing them pending the out come of the law suits. Maybe they are trying to save money and manpower by not pursuing something that inevitably will be over turned.

Interesting theory!

If that does happen, does anyone think there will be legal action against the ATF for not following through on its promise for waiving the tax stamp payment?

I am sure many would be irritated for that to happen after they compling with their ruling!