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  • TheMailMan

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    There is a score card that virtually all

    There is a checklist to determine if a pistol is a SBR, and almost all "large format" pistols will fail (by design). Just removing the brace isn't enough to prevent it from being considered a SBR, it's only one of the considerations. There will be an injunction on this. The BATFE cannot create law out of thin air.

    Incorrect.

    As per the FAQ presently removing the brace brings the firearm into compliance. The factoring criteria affect firearms build/sold AFTER 1/31/2023.

    Just as the GCA of '68 required all firearms to have a serial number... it only applies to firearms built after the effective date.
    Texas SOT
     

    Armybrat

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    TheMailMan

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    How’s the bird?

    How does somebody permanently remove a brace from a firearm design to accept one?

    Munchkin is like most Goffin's. Total lovebug one minute, crazy shredding machine the next. He loves his dad and will spend hours a day on me.

    Thanks for asking.

    Reading the FAQ and stuff I can only assume they want you to either alter the gun or the brace so the brace can't be put back on.

    Their wording has changed.
    It used to say "or destroy" the brace.

    I took the easy way out and submitted 14 of mine for the free registration. Now I can do what I want with the braces.
     

    TheMailMan

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    Are AR pistols "designed" to accept a brace? Nope. Normal tubes and 'shorty'/captive spring/buffer are available.

    The majority of AR "pistols" came with standard milspec carbine tubes.

    I saw my first brace equipped AR back in 2012. At the time I recognized it was just a run around the NFA. I figured it would be slapped down fairly quickly.

    Five years later and they were still going strong, so I started building/buying. But I figured that sooner or later the "Man" was going to wake up and figure out the scam. The whole large format pistol market pretty much existed because you could attach a brace to them and not deal with the NFA stuff. Those of us who are older know that AR pistols had been around for years but were a very niche market and most people just ignored them. Then the braces started showing up and people jumped on the large format pistols because with the brace you could avoid all that NFA nonsense. Those large format pistols are just plain fun to shoot. A Ruger 10/22 Charger with a brace or a Ruger PC Charger with a brace will bring a smile to your face in a heartbeat. 9mm AR "pistols" suddenly became quite popular, why not, they're a real hoot to shoot.

    Well, the "Man" figured it out. They at least gave us more than 120 days to come into compliance, offered free registrations with no engravings AND allowed us to keep the guns with the braces on them till approval. Any normal adult had to know that this was coming.

    It could have been much worse.

    The sad thing is that there ae millions of unsuspecting gun owners out there that have no idea that come June 1 their range toy is a felony.
     

    benenglish

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    Those of us who are older know that AR pistols had been around for years but were a very niche market and most people just ignored them.
    I can remember back in the previous century when some folks would debate whether putting a cane tip on the back of a buffer tube turned it into a stock making them vulnerable to prosecution for having an unpapered SBR. I'd call the current state of affairs an improvement.
     

    jimbo

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    Are y'all saying this LAR9 is or will become illegal? 7 1/2 inch barrel with brace.
    Asking for a friend.

    AR9.jpg
     

    toddnjoyce

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    …Reading the FAQ...
    Here’s the problem I have with FAQs. They don’t align well what was written in the code.
    27 CFR 479.11 Firearm.
    (a) A shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
    (b) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
    (c) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
    (d) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
    There’s an annotation in the CFR that states rifle is further defined as
    Rifle.

    a. A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.

    1. For purposes of this definition, the term “designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder” shall include a weapon that is equipped with an accessory, component, or other rearward attachment (e.g., a “stabilizing brace”) that provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, provided other factors, as described in paragraph (2), indicate that the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder.
    Everyone focuses on the word brace, but the code uses the oxford comma, so that means a rifle is a weapon equipped with
    An accessory OR
    A component OR
    A rearward attachment.

    I’m pretty sure that any buffer tube, by any common understanding, is a component. I’m also pretty sure the buffer tube provides surface area that allows the weapon to he fired from the shoulder.

    That means sub-para 2 applies.
    2. When a weapon provides surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, the following factors shall also be considered in determining whether the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder:

    In sub-para 2, the word shall means ATF is required to consider the six factors of which only one is
    iv. Whether the surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder is created by a buffer tube, receiver extension, or any other accessory, component, or other rearward attachment that is necessary for the cycle of operations.
    That still leaves five other criteria in considerations and the big one here is:
    Whether the weapon has a length of pull, measured from the center of the trigger to the center of the shoulder stock or other rearward accessory, component or attachment (including an adjustable or telescoping attachment with the ability to lock into various positions along a buffer tube, receiver extension, or other attachment method), that is consistent with similarly designed rifles;

    Given that something around an inch or a less than 16% of difference exists across the lengths of most buffer tubes, although the spread across all is about 5”, so LOP may vary by as much as 2.5”. I wonder if ATF is down to subjectively splitting hairs because I can make an AR with a a 3.5” tube or an 8.5” buffer tube and 4” bbl. Is one subjectively an SBR and the other isn’t?

    That’s important because the courts usually don’t allow that much subjectivity.

    Given the Northern District of Texas just ruled in favor of expanding the frame/receiver rule injunction to give P80 relief, it’s going to be interesting once the brace rule is heard.

     

    Renegade

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    This legislation isn't going anywhere. The Armed Scholar Youtube channel does a good job of tracking the opposition to the ATFs rules.
    With congress members throwing their support behind the current lawsuits, and the supreme court's 2A friendly stand lately, the brace rule is all but dead.

    Dead, just like SlideFire?

    They know most of this shit is on shaky ground, but as said, they throw it against the wall and see what sticks, knowing either way they they can phuck with gun owners and get away with it.
     

    jimbo

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    I'm saying it, and have in the past - Having a Brace in the first place makes one a cuck.

    Buying any of these gimmicks (Brace, Bump Stock, Bullet Button, etc) to "get around" a law? Turn in your man card. Either get an SBR or be an outlaw.
    Wow! I guess I'm a cuck and didn't realize it. :)
    Now I'll have to find out what it means.
     
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