Posting pic with serial number

[majormadmax]

I've always thought it funny, like people who obscure their license plates when they post pictures of their vehicles. So someone knows the serial number of your firearm, how are they going to track down who you are and where you live?

Still, better safe than sorry. I suggest purchasing weapons that were built before 1968, that way you don't have to worry about it!

 

[txinvestigator]

I think it's a silly thing to be afraid of.

Agreed

 

[txinvestigator]

My concern is not that some fool will try to steal my gun if they have the serial number. It's some scammer stealing the photos and using them to trick some poor sap into sending them money. The NFA boards are overrun with fraudsters now.

If the scammee gets in touch with law enforcement the gun's make, model and serial number from the stolen photos is all they have to go on and NFA branch can look up the serial # in the registry. Might be getting a call from ATF that could have otherwise been avoided. Even if you just have to tell them 'No I still have the gun I never sold it to Mr XYZ for $25,000' it's still more inconvenience than if you had just not put that info out there for every Nigerian prince to use.

to what registry do you refer?

 

[grumper]

to what registry do you refer?

That would be the NFRTR, you know the one that has all the registered machineguns in it that the scammers like to steal photos of and use to post fraudulent ads to trick people into sending thousands of dollars to them.

There's a thread on AR15.com with pictures of one guy's RDIAS being used in a fraudulent ad and a prospective buyer asking about it. Fortunately the real owner of the sear contacted him first and told him not to send the douchebag any money. Big name NFA dealers like Ruben have had their photos and identities stolen as well. It's a real mess and the ATF doesn't seem to care about criminals ripping people off for tens of thousands of dollars, forging tax forms and stamps, and forging FFLs.

Don't see any reason to help the fraudsters counterfeit ATF forms by providing a real serial number. The scammers are notoriously lazy and fail to research the items they create fake ads for. They do stuff like fabricate Form 4s for a Thompson SMG that doesn't exist by photoshopping someone else's M16 form, but leave the barrel length at 20" and caliber 5.56. Anyone that did their due diligence would immediately see a red flag there. This goes for serial numbers too. Ex: if someone is claiming to have for sale a registered receiver IMI Model A Uzi but the serial number doesn't start with SA, there's a good chance it's a scam.

If a fraudster does victimize a buyer using stolen photos where the serial number is visible, seems to me that would be one of the most obvious possible leads for law enforcement to check out.

 

[TheDan]

I've always thought it funny, like people who obscure their license plates when they post pictures of their vehicles. So someone knows the serial number of your firearm, how are they going to track down who you are and where you live?

If finding out where you live is a legitimate concern for you, then blurring out license plates is a valid practice. There's several ways to look up who the plate belongs to including their address. If you post pictures of your car and valuable stuff like guns you might make yourself a target for some savvy thieves, but I don't really worry about that stuff. It's too much work to be anonymous.

 

[SA_Steve]

I've always had a bit of worry about my firearm/s being entered into the 'stolen' database. Either on purpose or by typo.

Probably impossible to get this fixed, bad as the no fly list.

The world now runs on the assumed infallibility of the computer screen or printout.


As to easy ID I'm surprised how many ham radio guys post their call sign. That's an instant bingo for an internet user. And those that have their license plate with their call sign on it are even more amazing.

 

[TheDan]

As to easy ID I'm surprised how many ham radio guys post their call sign. That's an instant bingo for an internet user. And those that have their license plate with their call sign on it are even more amazing.

I figure the ham folks just love licensing

 

[grumper]

https://www.atf.gov/file/86686/download

Advisory
Scams Using Fraudulent or Manipulated NFA Registration Documents

June 5, 2015
TO ALL FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSEES (FFLs) AND FIREARM PURCHASERS

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is advising the public to be aware of fraudulent National Firearms Act (NFA) tax registration forms being used to sell NFA firearms. Some individuals are presenting altered NFA Form 4’s to prospective buyers in order to obtain a deposit, but never deliver the firearms.

A typical scam starts with a perpetrator (seller) claiming ownership of an NFA firearm through an altered Form 4, and then contacting an FFL to see if that FFL is interested in purchasing the NFA firearm. If the FFL expresses interest, the seller then requests that the FFL pay a percentage of the money upfront via cashier’s check and the remainder of the money after the ATF Form 4 paperwork is finalized. All communication is done via email. If the fraudulent documents are printed, they appear to be rough scans of an original approved ATF Form 4. However, if the documents are viewed on a computer screen and are magnified, it often becomes evident that various sections have been altered.

To avoid this scam, FFL’s and individuals should be aware of the following:

• The seller usually communicates via email.

• In box 1 (Type of Transfer), the tax stamp should be legible with a precise area for the serial number of the weapon to be hand written. The tax stamp has proven to be the most effective way to detect a fraudulent form. The perpetrators often paste a serial number over the serial number on the stamp. Upon closer inspection, it is often possible to detect the outline of the fraudulent serial number.

• In box 3a (Transferor), if the firearm was previously transferred from an FFL, the name of the FFL is often misspelled. A simple internet query for that FFL may assist those who suspect a scam.

• If applicable, box 7 (Transferor’s FFL) will contain the Federal Firearms Licensee number which should be verified through the FFL eZ Check system. FFL eZ Check is a free service, available on the ATF website at www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/applications-FFL-eZ-check. If you have general questions regarding the FFL eZ Check system, you may contact the Federal Firearms Licensing Center at 1-866-662-2750.

If you believe you have been contacted by an individual utilizing fraudulent NFA forms, or have otherwise come in contact with a fraudulent or manipulated form, please contact your local ATF field office as soon as possible for assistance. A list of local field offices can be found at http://www.atf.gov/content/contact-us/local-atf-office.

Looks like ATF has finally caught on to what the scammers have been doing for years. Their advisory has a section regarding serial numbers. Don't hand them out, don't aid the scammers.

 

[Shorts]

I've always had a bit of worry about my firearm/s being entered into the 'stolen' database. Either on purpose or by typo.

Probably impossible to get this fixed, bad as the no fly list.

The world now runs on the assumed infallibility of the computer screen or printout.


As to easy ID I'm surprised how many ham radio guys post their call sign. That's an instant bingo for an internet user. And those that have their license plate with their call sign on it are even more amazing.

Negative on the difficulty. Takes less than a minute to Clear from the system.

All you do is take your proof of purchase/ownership and cased/unloaded firearm to the PD (doesn't even have to be the entering agency but it'll be easier as they'll have the original CFS from inputting the firearm).

 

[SA_Steve]

Of course everyone has such paperwork, or can phony it up I suppose.
Anyway, it is nice to know that any 'agency' has write access to the database. Or is that really nice ?

 

[Shorts]

There are conditions that must be met in order for a firearm to be entered. Without that, it won't be stolen.

All agencies have users that access database through the state system. In order to have access the user has to go through training, get certified, test and possess a license through TCOLE/DPS. Part of the reason this "hire out" idea won't fly back in another thread.

I suppose purchase paperwork can be faked, but I'd use my brain and pull my insurance coverage records where my firearm and serial number are listed on the policy. I'd even pull the box the gun came in when I bought it that contain the serial number, product # etc and all the new gun ppw.