Precision & Bulk Press

[TrooperKbC]

I am totally new into reloading. I have done some reading, but still have some questions... Of course a progressive Dillon press would be nice and seem to be most glorified, but I am not getting into reloading to save money(although it is a secondary reason). I plan to reload for accuracy from my rifles. I will be loading 300-221 and 6.5 Swede at first. The only reasonably priced dies for 300-221 are from Redding(Redding 3-Die Set 300-221 (30-221 Remington Fireball) - MidwayUSA), so a press that can use them is a must. I'm thinking of getting a Lee Classic 4-Hole Turret. That way I can load these two and also my pistols and other future projects without breaking the bank.

What is the best press for precision loading?

What is the best press for bulk(400<x<1200 rounds/month) loading with minimal or no accuracy loss?

 

[Texas42]

I'm not a precision reloading guy, but. . .

Your gonna want a progressive to reload your pistol's. Dillon, Hornady, both make good progressives, though I only have experience with my Dillon. The prices are close enough. Mine gives +/- 0.1 grain. I'd avoid the Lee Progressive because of the reviews. Though I wish I'd gotten the 650 instead because of the 5 stations instead of 4.

Any single stage will give you good results, though I'm sure there are super expensive presses for the ultra precise. I am not really happy with my Lyman turret. I was getting some variances in OAL. I don't remember how much, but it annoyed me. A few thousands of an inch.

ps, those sound like some fun calibers. Good Luck.

 

[dalto]

First of all let me say that I am not an experienced reloader but I just did a ton of research on presses.

The Forstar Co-ax is widely considered to be the best single stage press for precision work. The Redding presses and the RCBS RockChucker are also well liked.

For large volume reloading you will want a progressive. Dillon is considered the "best" but Hornady is starting to make in-roads with a lot of reloaders. Before you buy a progressive press you need to ask your self a few key questions to make sure you invest in the right press. Dillon alone has at least four separate progressive presses to choose from.

What calibers will I load?
Some progressives only support certain calibers.

How much will I load?/How lazy am I?
Some features that will make loading faster include an auto-indexer, a case feeder and a bullet feeder.

How many different calibers will I load?
The cost and ease of changing calibers varies greatly between progressive presses.

The most widely recommended press for loading a moderate volume of a wide variety of calibers is the Dillon 550B. This is followed by the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP.

There is lots of video on Youtube where you can watch these progressives in action and get a feel for how these each work.

 

[Dawico]

A turret press is just a single stage that holds more than one die at a time, and for loading more than two calibers, you still would have to change the dies out, so I don't see the advantage personally.

Unless you are a benchrest competitor, any single stage press will work fine. My Lee single and my Rockchucker turn out the exact same ammo, but the Rockchucker does have a little better fit and finish. The ammo from one isn't any better than from the other. If rifles are your main loading concern, start with a single stage.

Worry about a progressive press later, when your handgun ammo needs justify it. They are a big expense, and a big pain to keep running smoothly, so I would stay away for now. They are definitely worth it when you have a ton of handgun ammo to load, but they aren't going to load precision rifle ammo very consistantly. You can always move up to one later, but a single stage is something that I couldn't live without.

Don't ignore Lee products because they are cheaper. Their dies are excellent, and you can remove stuck cases without any special tools. They load very consistant ammo.

 

[Leper]

A turret press is just a single stage that holds more than one die at a time, and for loading more than two calibers, you still would have to change the dies out, so I don't see the advantage personally.

Unless you are a benchrest competitor, any single stage press will work fine. My Lee single and my Rockchucker turn out the exact same ammo, but the Rockchucker does have a little better fit and finish. The ammo from one isn't any better than from the other. If rifles are your main loading concern, start with a single stage.

Worry about a progressive press later, when your handgun ammo needs justify it. They are a big expense, and a big pain to keep running smoothly, so I would stay away for now. They are definitely worth it when you have a ton of handgun ammo to load, but they aren't going to load precision rifle ammo very consistantly. You can always move up to one later, but a single stage is something that I couldn't live without.

Don't ignore Lee products because they are cheaper. Their dies are excellent, and you can remove stuck cases without any special tools. They load very consistant ammo.

I disagree with you on a few things. First, changing dies. You will change the tool head, not the dies themselves, on any progressive I have used. There is a huge difference. I can swap the heads on my 550 in about 30 seconds. Changing and adjusting just the dies takes me at least an hour.

As far as the work to keep the press running properly, that averages about 5 minutes worth of cleaning and 5 drops of oil a month. I have seen people just use canned air to clean them.

Progressives may not be the best for accuracy, but I think that is due to the auto powder measures for the most part. precise powder measurement is critical.

I have never compared apples to apples when it comes to the actual accuracy gains of using individual measures of powder. That is something I may do in the future.

Imo the progressive presses have so many other benefits, I don't see why people don't start with them from the get go, unless it is financial.

I guess the question I would be asking myself is if I am a good enough shot with my rifle to notice any improvement using hand loaded ammo. Precision ammo will only help you if you are already a good shot. It won't help an average shooter.

 

[spitstickler]

The Forstar Co-ax is widely considered to be the best single stage press for precision work. The Redding presses and the RCBS RockChucker are also well liked.

+1 on the Forster & good advice in this thread.

I have experience with several presses and the Forster is awesome for precision loading. If you aren't reloading tons of pistol ammo, you can keep up with reloading those calibers on a single stage. But 1,200 rounds a month would be a lot. As others have said, look at a Dillon or Hornady AP for making decent ammo with speed. It won't make the same quality of precision ammo as the Forster (maybe good enough for you, maybe not...), but it will definitely be faster.

I have a couple of different friends that reload on the 550b. One swears by it for everything and the other says "It's ok if you want to reload a lot of ammo fast" (he reloads precision rifle rounds on a single stage... never could get the accuracy he wanted out of the Dillon)

FYI, if you notice on all the currently running "sniper" shows on the Military and History Channel, if they show any reloading equipment, there is always a Forster press in the background.

Your mileage may vary. You have to decide on what you care about more, (and I suppose your personality a bit) ...precision or speed. If you are a good shot and the anal type, there is a stronger possibility that you won't get the kind of accuracy you want out of a progressive. But, as Leper said:

Precision ammo will only help you if you are already a good shot. It won't help an average shooter.

If you are an accomplished high power shooter then making the most accurate rounds possible is probably high on your list, but if you're like the bulk of us Americans that grew up shooting but never had any formal instruction, there is a lot to learn at an Appleseed. Although I was fairly certain at the time that "I didn't need it" I went a couple of years ago and my marksmanship improved greatly. The best $70 I've ever spent (reloading gear or otherwise), and I can't recommend the program enough.

 

[TrooperKbC]

AAGH! I just clicked "+ Reply to Thread" and it deleted everything I just typed. #$&%! Let me see how well I can redo...

When I was young I had a $400 pellet rifle and could stack lead at 30-40 meters, so I'm guessing maybe a couple MOA at 100 meters. There is no way I know of to know if a lack of accuracy comes from me, the rifle, or the ammo, when you're shooting a couple MOA. This leads to a couple questions...

At what level of skill would you consider a more precise and accurate press? 1MOA? 2? 3? 25?

How many MOA improvement can someone get from a Forster Co-ax vs. a Lee Classic 4-Hole(or whatever is the best turret) vs. a Dillon 550B?

 

[TexMex247]

I think it comes down to the user moreso than the press. You really need to ask yourself what is more important to you, volume or accuracy? I use a Lee Turret and have produced sub 1/2" groups with a rifle that has never shot better than 1.5" at 100yds. Playing with COLs and different powders can change a decent rifle into great rifle. I use the 4 hole for both rifle and pistol rounds. The extra turrets allow you to change-over dies in seconds and maintain their original setting very well. The stroke length even works for my .280 which basically uses a 30-06 case. Most progressives can be run in single stages but the dillon will require Dillon dies only. A major disadvantage price-wise. One day I might buy a square deal B to churn out pistol rounds but I enjoy the art of handloading. The press is important but your other accessories like a good scale or powder measure are equally important. Now that i own a chronograph, I don't know how I ever lived without it before. Unless you have deep pockets, I think the Lee turret press will be a great machine that you will get your moneys worth out of. Just my 2 cents - Texmex

 

[Charley]

I think it comes down to the user moreso than the press. You really need to ask yourself what is more important to you, volume or accuracy? I use a Lee Turret and have produced sub 1/2" groups with a rifle that has never shot better than 1.5" at 100yds. Playing with COLs and different powders can change a decent rifle into great rifle. I use the 4 hole for both rifle and pistol rounds. The extra turrets allow you to change-over dies in seconds and maintain their original setting very well. The stroke length even works for my .280 which basically uses a 30-06 case. Most progressives can be run in single stages but the dillon will require Dillon dies only. A major disadvantage price-wise. One day I might buy a square deal B to churn out pistol rounds but I enjoy the art of handloading. The press is important but your other accessories like a good scale or powder measure are equally important. Now that i own a chronograph, I don't know how I ever lived without it before. Unless you have deep pockets, I think the Lee turret press will be a great machine that you will get your moneys worth out of. Just my 2 cents - Texmex

I agree. I haven't just "read specs" and researched, I've spent over 25 years handloading everything from .32 ACP to 577/450 Martini Henry and a lot of stuff in between them. I do not believe there is a single "bad" press on the market today, competition has weeded out the poor designs. The most important factor is the OPERATOR, not the tool. I've seen people load crap on some very expensive tooling, and others load accurate, usable ammunition on Lyman 310s and Lee Loaders.

And yes, there IS a reason Forster equipment being oin the background on the Wannabe shows on History and the Military channel. It is called MARKETING and PRODUCT PLACEMENT! Nothing wrong with that per se, just don't believe everything you see on TV.

 

[The_Vigilante]

Would like to correct one misstatement made above. The only Dillon press that requires Dillon dies is the Square Deal B. The 550, 650, and 1050 can use dies from Lee, RCBS, Hornady, and Redding.

 

[ROGER4314]

Been loading since the late 1960's and have had quite the selection of gear. The major players, though were the RCBS Rockchucker which is about 40+ years old and still with me and three Dillion RL 450's two of which are gone to other homes. I had a Dillon set up for large primers and one for small primers which made a changeover in calibers very easy. Dillon is a fine company, great about supporting our sport and their presses are good and well supported by people who know what they're doing. Other brands are good, too.

I do NOT agree that your first press should be a progressive. I'd do a single stage first and when every part and adjustment of the dies is routine for you, then consider a Turret press. Meanwhile, you'll get used to loads and powder measurement and it will all become easy to you. On a single stage press, it's a lot easier to identify and correct problems. The money spent on a single stage press is not wasted as the press can always handle your rifle loads, later, when you get into progressive loaders.

I recommend that you start with one brand of dies and stick with it. I have a whole pile of spare parts for my dies and it makes it easier to maintain them when I own all RCBS equipment. RCBS is great stuff but the other brands are, too.

Flash

 

[craigntx]

the 'chucker can be made into a progressive later. i want one too

 

[Flashcb]

Shooting CAS I go through a lot of 38/357 a month. That gets loaded on a Dillon 650. well consistent enough for the 50 yards or so of range depth (don't know about farther out than that cause 90 yard is the longest I've shoot with my "match" guns). but my long range (comparetively) 38-55 gets loaded on a single stage, and yes you can keep up with 1000 rounds or so a month on a single stage, just deprime, size and bell in the LR in front of the TV.

 

[AusTex]

I load for accuracy and here are my to get list for doing it on the cheap... Decent die set don't worry about micrometer seating dies and $100 per die.. Get yourself a lee Collet Die.. these are cheap and work extremely well with keeping good neck tension and straight necks(the alternative to this is neck turning but that is another $100+ dollar investment to do right). Get yourself a flash hole debur tool, primer pocket uniform tool, and hornady oal gauge and bullet comparators for your calibers(This is the best tool to find out your chamber depth and in working up loads what you need to know where your gun likes the bullet seated in comparison to the lands(rifling)).

Besides that case prep is key, fire formed brass(neck sizing not full length sizing), trimmed to size is very important. If you want to get deeper into accuracy techniques you can weigh out each and every case, weigh each and every projectile and make batches of like cases for groups. Annealing cases also can increase accuracy.

Find out your barrel twist and work with bullets that are optimum for it. That 6.5 swede is a AWESOME round and although not as hot as the 284 you are still going to be able to work magic with it.

Get a good single stage and if you have any questions just ask. There is obviously a lot more to it but from reloading for long range now for 6 years these are the things I have found to be most helpful to me and it doesn't have to cost you an arm and a leg.

 

[TrooperKbC]

I use the 4 hole for both rifle and pistol rounds. The extra turrets allow you to change-over dies in seconds and maintain their original setting very well. The press is important but your other accessories like a good scale or powder measure are equally important. Unless you have deep pockets, I think the Lee turret press will be a great machine that you will get your moneys worth out of. Just my 2 cents - Texmex

I couldn't wait any longer. IDK if I made the right decision, as it does seem the Forster would be the most stable single stage and the Dillon the most versitile progressive, but I went down to Cabela's and got the Lee Classic 4-hole turret.

I like the idea of being able to change turrets without loosing settings like I could with a single stage, even though the turret may have a tiny bit of vertical play. I can either clamp it down, or just hope the dies don't begin their work until the turret has "topped out" thus eliminating any accuracy lost from that play. Also, I can just disable the auto-indexing mechanism and use the Lee in manual indexing mode as a single stage if I need to focus on one die.

I have enough free time that 1200 rounds may not be too much of a demand without a progressive; but if it is, the Lee has a good enough resale value and was inexpensive enough to start with that a future upgrade isn't out of the question.

I also completely agree that having a precise scale and other accessories is also essential...which will lead into the topic for my next thread. THANKS!

 

[AusTex]

Well my opinion is it is better to be doing it and learning than not doing it. Sometimes people get so caught up in reviews and the plethora of info on the net that they can't pull the trigger. Load some loads see how you do and yeah if you don't like it resell it and get one that works better. Now that you have it here are a few other thoughts.

Wear your safety glasses. I had a .223 explode on me and it was not fun...
Don't drink booze or watch Dr. phill while you are doing it stay focused.
Get over all length gauges for the calibers you are doing.. easy and fast way to check your die setup as if the bullet slides in and slides out are are ready to put it in your gun and in the process of doing that you are forced to look at the primer and case yet another time to make sure there are no issues.
Besides that make sure you get the right load in every case.. A low load is a squib and a double load will go boom... So be careful. If something didn't feel right it probably wasn't.

Good luck!

 

[scap99]

I started reloading back in 1996 with a Dillon XL650. Fast forward to last month, and just got my first single stage reloader. I'm cranking out high quality match 308 ammo for my bolt gun and I want quality over quantity.