price gouging

[jagged97]

the problem with prices is that we have to make too many assumptions about the reason for an increase or decrease. it says quite a bit about someone's character as to whether they think the problem through, or just quickly jump to the assumption that the vendor is greedy.

example: a hurricane is coming. gas prices go up. at this point we have to make assumptions, but there are definitely some facts that come into play. demand has gone up, so the station owner is running out of gas. he has no idea if there will be more supply anytime soon, where that supply will come from or how much it will cost. if he can't get more supply, he has to live and support his family on what money he gets from selling the gas he has now. he can also be pretty sure that any supply he is able to get will cost more and take longer for delivery. those are just a few things that come into play.

the same thing was true for gun dealers. they public was buying guns like crazy, afraid there would be none to buy soon because of the political climate or whatever. the dealers faced those same fears, and so did their suppliers.

are there some greedy SOB's trying to take advantage of the situation? yes. is that the norm? hell, no. the great power in being a consumer is that you don't have to buy, yet. (public option, anyone?)

 

[Texas1911]

I'm really getting tired of these threads.

The guns in question are not a need item, they are a luxury. You simply want them for cheap because the American consumer is used to getting things for cheap. You want your guns for cheap, because you want them, and you feel entitled to it.

Problem is there are 20 other people that were willing to pay $600 for a WASR and the gun dealer isn't a moron. You either pay $600 for the WASR or you decide it's not worthwhile to you, it's that simple. At no point are you entitled to a $450 price tag simply because you want one, or because that's "what they used to go for".

Colt 1911s used to sell for $125 at some point, now they are $2000 and up. Springfield 1903s used to be in a bargain bin for $25 a rifle, now they are fetching $500 and up. Those $100 sear packs are commanding $10,000 and more. Why? Because more people want them every day and are willing to pay the price.

It's how things work in life. It's not gouging, it's just the free market.

Most of the tactical rifle crap is just collecting dust for most people, us included. Eventually the market will correct and prices will go down. People can't eat AKs.

 

[Texas1911]

i'm saying our economy is now based on usury and fiat money,not on the gold standard and real wealth.

The gold standard has proven to prevent absolutely nothing. It's nothing more than a Utopian methodology. As soon as the government is faced with a problem they'll suspend it and print money, as several countries did in WWII.

The gold and silver standard did nothing to prevent the collapse of the German and American economies in the 20s and 30s.

It's another tin foil hat ideology that is based upon face value understanding of economic theory. People need to look at the empirical results in this case.

The root of the problem isn't the standard, but the role of the people not being upheld. We have allowed Washington to spend beyond it's means, pure and simple. Funny how we fear 1,000 people when we number 200 million.

 

[Texas1911]

theres capitalism and then theres greed based on usury,which is what american business has been doing for many many years.

"Greed based usury" has been utilized by both consumer and producer alike. I would argue that the consumer has a larger role in the market, and is thus responsible for the condition of the market.

 

[HarleyMechanix]

I will respectfully disagree. I like to shoot as im sure you all do. Thats kindof hard when you cant find ammo. Being a responsible consumer i do my research. The same reason i dont buy brand new cars or order room service or buy ammo at the range. I dont want to get screwed.
During bike rallys we dont jack the price of motor oil, batteries or labor just because we have a wealth of customers. Conversly in the winter we lower prices to generate work. We provide honest, skilled work at a fair price.
Camping out at walmart or academy to buy ammo to sell at twice or three times the price on texas gun trader or in a retail shop is neither a skill nor honest.
I consider shooting a leisure activity and understand it is not free. Consequently i have decided what i will spend to enjoy this sport. He who has the ammo can charge what he wants for it, but i wont participate and i will still be pissed about not being able to shoot. --end rant, off of soapbox--

 

[Texas1911]

How is it "not honest"? It's just how capitalism works. Everyone else is not willing to "camp out Walmart" so why should they reap benefits for something they are not willing to put the effort in on?

I used to go out and buy car parts and resell them for profit. I took the time to go out there, pull the parts, spending a few hours at the yard, selling them, shipping them, and everything in between. At the same time, people locally said I was ripping them off because I wasn't leaving the parts out there for them to go get should they up and decide they need one.

If you want it, work for it. That's how capitalism works.

What's next, you want to socialize ammo purchases?

If you don't want to raise rates because of a rally that is your right and prerogative. It is for the market to decide collectively as consumer and producer.

 

[HarleyMechanix]

I understand how capitalism works and am all for it. I dont want to socialize anything. AT ALL. Ammo puchases have already been partway "socialized" by retailers putting a limit on how many boxes you can buy per visit. I will be the first to agree that the majority of idiot consumers are to blame as much as price gougers and ticket scalpers. But I WILL NOT PARTICIPATE and will not be happy about not shooting. But if your idea of work is hanging out at walmart waiting for the ammo shipment then that is where you and i differ in opinion.

 

[Texas42]

The reason they have been putting box limits is to increase floor traffic. If they never have anything to sell, people will stop comming to the store. If people don't come to the store to buy ammo, then they lose all the un-intended sales that people do whenever they go to a store (like how you alwasy end up spending $30 whenever you go to buy a gallon or two of milk at wal-mart.)

No one is making them ration the ammo, it is just another sales strategy.

 

[navyguy]

I think all to much is being made out of the theory that ammo vendors are "camping out" and buying up all of the cheap ammo at Wall Mart et al. Has that happened.... sure, but there's not a gaggle of ammo vendors standing and waiting for the door to open... like the day after Thanksgiving...

 

[brickboy240]

Its not gouging....its called the free market.

Hey, if you have a store and want to sell WASRs for 600 bucks...go right ahead. If you can sell them at that price...more power to you. I, however, will never buy one from you at that price and will look elsewhere.

If Collectors or Gander can actually SELL guns and ammo at their crazy prices and keep their doors open - great. Obviously there are still enough impulse buyers, wealthy collectors and lazy buyers to keep them alive. If this clientele keeps them afloat - I wish them all the luck in the world. I, however, will never buy from them.

This gets so friggin old to explain but I guess we'll go over it repeatedly because they don't require economics in most public high schools...but they should.

The REASON the prices are so high is because there are enough of you all BUYING at these prices. If a majority would stop buying at the higher prices....they'd get the message and down the prices would come.

The beauty of the free market we have is that it works both ways. YOU control it as much as they do. Don't like the price....look around...I can guarantee you somebody has it for less...maybe alot less.

So if you payed 1200 plus for a basic AR or 30 dollars a box for 9mm in the last year - don't bitch about it, ok? You are the reason why the prices went where they did. Nobody forced you to pay those insane prices and I bought 9mm locally during that same time period for 8.99 a box so don't tell me it was not possible.

So yeah, its not gouging and lately, many prices on these items HAVE come out of the stratosphere. Reason one why I might actually entertain buying an AR nowdays. At around 800 bucks...the Stag AR is worth it. At 1200 forget it...they can keep the thing.

The free market is a beautiful thing...learn how to use it to your advantage.

- brickboy240

 

[android]

I'm honestly starting to see some more reasonable prices. I bought a box of 100 Winchester White Box 40 S&W's for $34 @ the recent Texas Gun Show in San Antonio. The seller had a bunch of ammo and it all seemed to be reasonably priced.

Why in the world would you do that when you can buy that same box of WWB .40 S&W at Walmart for $27.95 almost all the time?

 

[ftw13]

man i went to the big town show in mesquite,talk about gouging.....
i saw two five seven pistols one was $1399 the other $1500 and they said the price was the price. a guy with a table up against the wall trying to sell draco pistols for $650....wtf? and they wonder why no one was buying. there were a few good deals but they were on used stuff. some of those vendors were selling scuffed up guns for new prices. i saw a marlin 30-30 for $440 too. silliness

 

[Texas1911]

It's not gouging. It's called a high price.

Gouging is you selling water to a dying man in a desert for everything he owns.

Gouging is not selling a pistol that no one really needs, but wants, for $1500.

 

[TxEMTP69]

will this ever end?

 

[ftw13]

ok gouging isn't really the right word.....perhaps attempting to ripoff people would be more accurate. above msrp is just plain stupid is my point thats all.

 

[Maxpower]

ok gouging isn't really the right word.....perhaps attempting to ripoff people would be more accurate. above msrp is just plain stupid is my point thats all.

it will continue for as long as all the stupid people out there keep buying

 

[Texas42]

MSRP is simply the "suggested" price.

Sellers can set their prices to whatever they want. If they can't, then that is your basic socialism.

I really don't understand why some people don't get that.

 

[ftw13]

greed has brought down many an empire,even socialist greed

 

[TrailDust]

MSRP is simply the "suggested" price.

Sellers can set their prices to whatever they want. If they can't, then that is your basic socialism.

I really don't understand why some people don't get that.

It's not gouging. It's called a high price.

Gouging is you selling water to a dying man in a desert for everything he owns.

Gouging is not selling a pistol that no one really needs, but wants, for $1500.

Agree with both of you. In the end, it's a matter of supply and demand. People always are happy when the price is in their favor, like during sale, but when the merchant has the better price it's "unfair."

 

[txinvestigator]

ok gouging isn't really the right word.....perhaps attempting to ripoff people would be more accurate.

It is not ripping people off either if the price is as marked, there are no hidden fees, etc. Just because YOU don't like the price does not make it WRONG,

above msrp is just plain stupid is my point thats all.

Why is it stupid? Because you don't like it?

Good grief.