No. As much as they'd like to believe, it doesn't protect either party of the private transaction. Quite the contrary.
Private Handgun Sale
- Thread starter Frank59
- Start date
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Why do people push this myth about gun sales.
As a private seller you have no legal obligation to make sure about any info on someone buying a gun from you in TX.
Your only legal obligation is to not KNOW he is not a resident under age or ineligible from owning what you are selling.
Now moral obligation is a separate thing and that is up to you to decide.
As a private seller you have no legal obligation to make sure about any info on someone buying a gun from you in TX.
Your only legal obligation is to not KNOW he is not a resident under age or ineligible from owning what you are selling.
Now moral obligation is a separate thing and that is up to you to decide.
BuzzinSATX
Well-Known
So can someone please enlighten me as to how a BOS hurts either party in a private firearm sale?
I know many of you feel the BOS is comparable to a signed contract with Satan for your soul, but I honestly don’t understand why.
Bill of sale is a subject that should be banned. Worse than war politics religion or sex with a mods wife, or husband...not that there is anything wrong with that.
Ban it now for the love of god humanity peace justice and the PC American way.
Ban it now for the love of god humanity peace justice and the PC American way.
Whut? Never mind, private sales. LOL, threw me off when you got back on topic.
LMAO!! Holy crap..... I sure didn't mean to get this started again...
It has been hashed out 10million times on the board and no one changes any ones mind just use the search engine and you will find more on the topic than anyone would care to wade though.
It boils down to a bill of sale has never helped anyone keep out of jail and a BOS has put people behind bars.
They are not worth the paper they are printed on when it comes down to you leaning on it to prove anything. Perhaps it will satisfy a DA or LE if the gun you sold is used in a crime, perhaps not. It surely is not a get out of jail free card. Conversely, it can and has been used as evidence against people to show they were selling firearms without a license........
Now the dude may have been a douche and his circumstances are not going to apply to 99.9% of people selling a gun here and there, the fact remains that his own BOS's were used against him in his trial.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/...onths-prison-dealing-firearms-without-license
I'm unable to find a link to the indictment right now, but this is from the PDF I have of it on my PC.
In summary, with what constitutes "in the business" of dealing guns being nebulous and open to interpretation, collecting paper work documenting your sales is a good way to build a case against yourself.
That and somebody has your personal information on paper in their possession. Perhaps not worth much by itself but that does bother some folks especially when combined with the fact that it's known you own guns.
I simply don't like it because it's not something that's required by law and is usually collected to "get the gun out of my name". Makes sense for a car. Doesn't make any sense for a gun.
That and somebody has your personal information on paper in their possession. Perhaps not worth much by itself but that does bother some folks especially when combined with the fact that it's known you own guns.
I simply don't like it because it's not something that's required by law and is usually collected to "get the gun out of my name". Makes sense for a car. Doesn't make any sense for a gun.
BuzzinSATX
Well-Known
Southpaw/SQL, thanks for that info. Appreciate your not getting condescending.
Some of y’all are seriously way too dramatic and emotional in this subject. It’s a freaking internet social media discussion board. Such wailing and gnashing of teeth...makes me think some of you believe a BOS is black, plastic, and made by Glock!
As far as the topic is a BOS, it strikes me as way odd that a BOS is an important document for a lot of reasons for a lot of transactions, but just not for guns.
A buddy who left to go overseas gave me an old 4*7 utility trailer he bought at a yard sale that he’d never registered. I decided to register it so I could use it to haul small loads of dirt, and when I rolled into DMV, they needed a BOS! I had to contact him and have him sign one so I could get tags.
Property transfers between a store and person, you get a receipt (BOS). Get into a dispute about ownership of property, what is supposed to prove ownership? A BOS.
But by some cosmic quirk, a BOS is suddenly an instrument of voodoo and black arts when it comes to guns.
I get they can be forged. I get they are way better if notarized. But the simple fact remains, if the document is beyond dispute (maybe witnessed???), why is it considered less than toilet paper used the mornings after hitting the all you can eat taco bar?
no response needed...but the dramatic ranting is kinda fun to read if you insist!
Some of y’all are seriously way too dramatic and emotional in this subject. It’s a freaking internet social media discussion board. Such wailing and gnashing of teeth...makes me think some of you believe a BOS is black, plastic, and made by Glock!
As far as the topic is a BOS, it strikes me as way odd that a BOS is an important document for a lot of reasons for a lot of transactions, but just not for guns.
A buddy who left to go overseas gave me an old 4*7 utility trailer he bought at a yard sale that he’d never registered. I decided to register it so I could use it to haul small loads of dirt, and when I rolled into DMV, they needed a BOS! I had to contact him and have him sign one so I could get tags.
Property transfers between a store and person, you get a receipt (BOS). Get into a dispute about ownership of property, what is supposed to prove ownership? A BOS.
But by some cosmic quirk, a BOS is suddenly an instrument of voodoo and black arts when it comes to guns.
I get they can be forged. I get they are way better if notarized. But the simple fact remains, if the document is beyond dispute (maybe witnessed???), why is it considered less than toilet paper used the mornings after hitting the all you can eat taco bar?
no response needed...but the dramatic ranting is kinda fun to read if you insist!
You're welcome....but then you proceed to get condescending yourself. Kind of odd.
The difference for vehicles/trailers is registration. And that's not an insignificant difference.
I've never collected or filled out a bill of sale for any private purchase that wasn't a vehicle. And I've sold cell phones, lawn mowers and countless other small goods that fall more in line with a firearm than a car or real estate.
And likewise, firearms seem to have some magic voodoo around them that they need bills of sale. Shrug.
Of age here means they must be 21 or older for a handgun sale. How you confirm that is your business but if they are of any questionable age you will need to see a DL or some paperwork showing age. If you sell a gun to someone not legally able to own it, it could come back to bite your bottom.
This site will argue all day about a bill of sale. I can only tell you what I do at risk of a flamethrowing incident, I use a bill of sale. Darn, that was a hot flamethrower. I don't care what others say of the value. I don't buy or sell without one. That's me, you do whatever you like. You don't legally need a bill of sale in Texas. Nuff said.
This site will argue all day about a bill of sale. I can only tell you what I do at risk of a flamethrowing incident, I use a bill of sale. Darn, that was a hot flamethrower. I don't care what others say of the value. I don't buy or sell without one. That's me, you do whatever you like. You don't legally need a bill of sale in Texas. Nuff said.
BuzzinSATX
Well-Known
I didn’t mean to be condescending...but maybe a bit antagonistic and obviously a failed attempt at humor...
When I used to ask for a BOS, I always advertised it as a condition of sale up front. I never had anyone respond negatively, and I always saw it as a simple thing, no different than saying the price was “firm”, and it was what it was.
But I’ve seen some folks berated here for asking for one, which is their right to ask as seller. Add that to the pre-warning/anticipatory posts prior to mine, and I guess I just went in a bit hot on my post. My bad.
As far as the observation on the trailers...fair point. I only needed the BOS to register my trailer...unless someone challenged ownership of it.
Hypothetical question...your coworker offers to sell you a rifle for cash. You buy it. A couple months later, he gets in a jam and needs money. He calls the cops and says you stole the gun from him. He still has his receipt from Academy from when he bought it. You have no receipt, no witness of the transaction. They roll up and ask you if you have the gun.
Or is this something that simply couldn’t happen?
I don’t buy the answer “possession is 9/10ths”. If this were a rule, no stolen property would ever be recovered.
Sorry if I was being mean or rude or condescending to anyone...definitely not a good way to be.
BuzzinSATX
Well-Known
Clearly not.
yes, I shared my information with them. Here in Texas, I used the BOS template on the www.texasguntrader.com website.
last several guns I sold were to good friends. I didn't ask for a BOS. Will I in the future? Maybe. Thinking about selling off some guns soon.
