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Proposal to consider regarding Texas CHL.

Discussion in 'Gun Legislation' started by Acera, Oct 4, 2013.

  1. Acera

    Acera TGT Addict

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    A lot of us view the Texas CHL process as behind the times and in need of a change. Texas no longer is leading the way in many self protection issues and the pace seems to be slowing as shown lately in the campus and open carry failures. IMHO.


    Got down a rabbit hole during another search and came across how Mississippi does it, and thought it might be a good way, or intermediate step for Texas to improve on it's current CHL laws.

    Just looking to start a discussion on it's pros and cons. Of course, this is not going to be a good solution for the constitutional carry folks, and I will agree with their position. However, in a state that has a significant number of progressive lawmakers, this might be a compromise step in the right direction that can get passed.

    In Mississippi there are two types of permits. A 'Firearms Permit' which is their basic CHL, and an Enhanced Permit.


    In Mississippi to get a basic permit, called a gun permit there, but it allows you to concealed carry your sidearm.

    Requirements:
    1. Twenty-one (21) years of age
    2. Applicant must have been a resident of the state for over 12 months
    3. Or to a person with a valid out of state license
    4. Or is on active military duty
    5. Or a retired law enforcement officer seeking residency
    6. No suffering from a physical infirmity which prevents the safe handling of a handgun
    7. No drug or alcohol abusers
    8. No convicted felons or fugitives from justice
    9. No mental problems
    10 No violent misdemeanor convictions within the last 3 years
    11. Not prohibited from possessing a firearm under federal law

    Required Documents:
    1. The applicant must submit fingerprints
    2. A full-face photograph
    3. Pay a fingerprint fee and $100 license fee.

    This is pretty basic stuff and an easy hurdle for most honest citizens to jump over. Think the cost is a bit high, but no class required or proficiency requirement.

    Texas recognizes this permit in regards to reciprocity.

    To get the 'Enhanced Permit', you have to have the basic permit and take a class from a Mississippi DPS Certified Enhanced Permit Instructor. Upon completion of the program, the course instructor will issue a completed MS DPS approved certificate. The CCW holder will travel to a CCW issuing location and present the certificate AND their current CCW. DPS make a copy of the certificate and adhere a sticker endorsement on the CCW Permit. No charge or fee for this service. You only have to pay the instructor for the class.

    Now here is where the benefit of the enhanced permit comes into play. The number of places you can carry increases.

    Firearms Permit (the basic one)
    CAN NOT carry in a Courtroom or Law Enforcement Office or detention center.
    CAN NOT carry in Polling Place or meeting of the Government.
    CAN NOT carry at any School, College or Athletic Event.
    CAN NOT carry at establishment or portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises primarily devoted to such purpose .
    CAN NOT carry inside the passenger terminal of any airport .
    CAN NOT carry in any church or other place of worship.
    CAN NOT carry any place prohibited by federal law.
    CAN NOT carry where Private Business displays “NO FIREARMS” signage
    CAN NOT carry in Parades where permits are required.

    Enhanced Carry Permit
    (basic one with the sticker)
    CAN NOT carry in courtrooms during a judicial proceeding.
    CAN NOT carry in any police, sheriff or highway patrol station or any detention facility, prison or jail.
    CAN NOT carry any place prohibited by federal law.

    In a nutshell, if you do the class you gain the right to legally carry your weapon concealed in a lot of places like restaurants, churches, schools, sporting events, places posted by the owner that they are not allowed, etc.



    This might appeal to a lot of different folks here in Texas. The education/class requirement will appeal to CHL instructors and those that believe a class is needed. It's an option that opens a lot of doors that are currently closed to Texas CHL holders. Bad news is it's still not real cheap and no open carry provisions (Mississippi already has that) which is another topic.

    Interesting read here on some questions. http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/MSAGOpinionCCWEndorsement.pdf

    Their enhanced class can take many forms, for the minimum it is generally an 8 hour class, 60 rounds of ammo, and about $100.
    ( Enhanced Carry Classes )



    Ok, have at it, a few things to think and post about.

    Would this be good for Texas?

    Is there a chance this would pass here?

    Do we not need to waste our time on an indeterminate step and instead concentrate on constitutional carry?

    Would you feel safer with a system like this?

    Are you afraid that too many undesirables would get the basic permit if it was so easy?

    Would it's negative impact of CHL instructors income cause many of them to vocally oppose the it?

    Do you think that LE would have a problem with this in rural areas and/or urban areas?




    (Also, this was not a deeply researched post, did not take much time and I hope that the information is correct. I am not a lawyer nor do I have any experience with Mississippi. Got and complied the information from the internet from both national CWP sites and .gov sites in that state. I did my best to make sure it's an accurate representation of their situation. I welcome corrections and clarifications to the content.)
    (FYI, I do understand what 'shall not be infringed' means but we have to work within the laws we currently have in place, :) )
     


  2. Koinonia

    Koinonia Well-Known

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    Texas CHL Restrictions:
     A place of business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic
    beverages for on premises consumption
     On premises of a correctional facility
     On the physical premises of a school or educational institution (Defined as inside a building, not the grounds or under a covering), any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger
    transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational
    institution is public or private,
     On the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event of interscholastic
    event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in
    the event
     On the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress.
     racetrack (Defined as a Horse or Dog track only); secured area of an airport
     In any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or
    written authorization of the court.

    All marked with* MUST be posted correctly to be valid.

     *on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
     *On the premises of a Hospital licensed under the Health and Safety Code
     *On the premises of a nursing home licensed under the Health and Safety Code
     *Amusement parks. Amusement Parks means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where
    amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of
    more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only
    through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has
    security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private
    driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
     Public or private premises conspicuously posted with a Sign that meets these Criteria. (30.06)
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
  3. Acera

    Acera TGT Addict

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    Thanks Koinonia, that helps show the difference, for those that are not already informed about Texas's law.
     
  4. txinvestigator

    txinvestigator TGT Addict

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    I think the Mississippi model is more complicated than Texas. Adding Bureaucracy just makes things worse, imo.

    I think we would have more success just eliminating some of the arbitrarily restricted places.
     
  5. txinvestigator

    txinvestigator TGT Addict

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    What criteria?
     
  6. Koinonia

    Koinonia Well-Known

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    The 30.06 Criteria.
     
  7. karlac

    karlac Gone fishin' ... TGT Supporter Lifetime Member

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    My initial reaction also. Doesn't take lawyers long to start arguing over what the meaning of "is" is.
     
  8. txinvestigator

    txinvestigator TGT Addict

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    I must have missed the reference to 30.06. And just for clarity, postings are not required to make a property off limits under 30.06. Any verbal notice as well as specific written notice suffices.
     
  9. Renegade

    Renegade SuperOwner

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    agreed. Fix our system not replace it.
     
  10. Koinonia

    Koinonia Well-Known

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    You didnt miss it, i forgot to post it in that post!
     


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