Proposal to consider regarding Texas CHL.

[txinvestigator]

Personally, I'd say strip all laws restricting the 2nd Amendment in Texas. They're unconstitutional, bottom line. Move to Constitutional carry. There are already laws on the books that would restrict people from acting in a dangerous manner with a firearm, just as they do without a firearm (i.e.; intoxicated, disturbance, etc).

Private property is private property. You don't need a silly sign regulation. Get government out of the way.

Every time you pass a law to make you feel safer, instead of addressing the core issue- it erodes your overall rights and increases the governments influence over your life.

Anyways, that's my thoughts. I'm sure many don't agree.

So as a private property owner I do not have the right to keep firearms off my property?

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

So as a private property owner I do not have the right to keep firearms off my property?

Not at at all what I mean. As a private property owner you should have the right to restrict access to your property as you see fit. My point is that there are already adequate laws on the books. I'm against continuing to pass overlapping and unnecessary laws. Our founders were pretty brilliant with our constitution. They understood that implementing the right to a trial by a jury of your peers introduces the element of "common sense".

My point and question to you: Do we need a law standardizing signage when common sense should prevail without additional legislation?

 

[Younggun]

Considering the penalty(which I have no problem with), I would prefer a 1"X2" sign placed anywhere on the building not be considered legal notice.

The reasoning for the signage requirement is so that we are not in a position to accidentally carry in areas we shouldn't because we have to hunt for a million different sizes and shapes of signs that may be placed on any part of the building to be missed.


What if you walk in an entrance that doesn't have a sign but another does? Should you have circled the building to be sure?

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

Considering the penalty(which I have no problem with), I would prefer a 1"X2" sign placed anywhere on the building not be considered legal notice.

The reasoning for the signage requirement is so that we are not in a position to accidentally carry in areas we shouldn't because we have to hunt for a million different sizes and shapes of signs that may be placed on any part of the building to be missed.


What if you walk in an entrance that doesn't have a sign but another does? Should you have circled the building to be sure?

I still think this should be covered by common sense. If you are a private property owner, and you wish to restrict access to your premises- then its incumbent on you to post signs on access doors or areas. Why do you need a specific law for this? Can anyone reasonably argue that a sign that nobody can read sufficient notice anymore than an owner whispering in a volume that nobody can hear "I'd like you to leave"?

 

[txinvestigator]

Not at at all what I mean. As a private property owner you should have the right to restrict access to your property as you see fit. My point is that there are already adequate laws on the books. I'm against continuing to pass overlapping and unnecessary laws. Our founders were pretty brilliant with our constitution. They understood that implementing the right to a trial by a jury of your peers introduces the element of "common sense".

My point and question to you: Do we need a law standardizing signage when common sense should prevail without additional legislation?

Without 30.06 a ghostbusters sign or little "no weapons" sign would suffice as notice. 30.06 benifitted us, and is reasonable.

My answer to you is an unequivocal yes.

 

[txinvestigator]

I still think this should be covered by common sense. If you are a private property owner, and you wish to restrict access to your premises- then its incumbent on you to post signs on access doors or areas. Why do you need a specific law for this? Can anyone reasonably argue that a sign that nobody can read sufficient notice anymore than an owner whispering in a volume that nobody can hear "I'd like you to leave"?

You are arguing against the point you are trying to make. With your model, a LEO would have PC to arrest with just a small "no weapons" sign posted.

It is illogical to presume others hold the same standard of common sense and reasonable that you do. Heck, you and I disagree and we are on the same team. When the stakes are potential arrest and loss of freedom, I prefer the spelled out standard.

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

You are arguing against the point you are trying to make. With your model, a LEO would have PC to arrest with just a small "no weapons" sign posted.

It is illogical to presume others hold the same standard of common sense and reasonable that you do. Heck, you and I disagree and we are on the same team. When the stakes are potential arrest and loss of freedom, I prefer the spelled out standard.

I don't think that I'm arguing against my point. I never said that the power rests with the LEO. It rests with the jury of your peers as the framers designed.

Under any model, an LEO can arrest you for anything he wants. Just look at how people are being arrested for lawfully carrying firearms because an LEO has an opinion that it was "calculated to alarm". That doesn't mean that a crime was committed, or the LEO was right.

I also agree we are generally on the same side of the issue. The 30.06 signs seem to work well. Our difference is that I'm not willing to trade personal freedom for convenience and government intrusion. I think we don't give the American people enough credit. I believe that we have grown complacent and apathetic because we are becoming dependent on nanny laws and entitlement society. I believe that how we shape or society through legislation and social norms has a direct effect on how society and the individual operates.
Example: The average American does not know how to change their own oil on their automobile. Is this caused by a lack of common sense or is it caused by a dependance on convenience?

Also, if we are deviating too far from the OP's intent, we could move this to a different thread.

 

[txinvestigator]

I don't think that I'm arguing against my point. I never said that the power rests with the LEO. It rests with the jury of your peers as the framers designed.

Under any model, an LEO can arrest you for anything he wants. Just look at how people are being arrested for lawfully carrying firearms because an LEO has an opinion that it was "calculated to alarm". That doesn't mean that a crime was committed, or the LEO was right.

I also agree we are generally on the same side of the issue. The 30.06 signs seem to work well. Our difference is that I'm not willing to trade personal freedom for convenience and government intrusion. I think we don't give the American people enough credit. I believe that we have grown complacent and apathetic becausepwe are becoming dependent on nanny laws and entitlement society. I believe that how we shape or society through legislation and social norms has a direct effect on how society and the individual operates.
Example: The average American does not know how to change their own oil on their automobile. Is this caused by a lack of common sense or is it caused by a dependance on convenience?

Also, if we are deviating too far from the OP's intent, we could move this to a different thread.

I dont see what oil changes have to do with this, nor is it a comparison that makes any sense. Without 30.06 you can carry in fewer places and risk arrest much more easily. I have said it twice already; 30.06 serves us and is reasonable.

You may have the last word..

 

[Acera]

Example: The average American does not know how to change their own oil on their automobile. Is this caused by a lack of common sense or is it caused by a dependance on convenience?

Has nothing to do with common sense. It has a lot to do with whether or not they have received the education or sought out and learned from the resources available. There are many reasons that folks don't know how to do any number of things. Just because it's simple to you does not mean the other person has no common sense if they can't do it. Heck they might not have even tried.

The concept of common sense is so ambiguous that I don't think it can be used as any form of legal baseline.

 

[40Arpent]

I think the Mississippi model is more complicated than Texas. Adding Bureaucracy just makes things worse, imo.

I think we would have more success just eliminating some of the arbitrarily restricted places.

Totally agree. Modeling after Mississippi is a step backwards.

 

[Green Eye Tactical]

I dont see what oil changes have to do with this, nor is it a comparison that makes any sense. Without 30.06 you can carry in fewer places and risk arrest much more easily. I have said it twice already; 30.06 serves us and is reasonable.

You may have the last word..

No last word. You're very well informed and knowledgeable, I've read your posts on other forums. We're all entitled to our own opinions and our own vote.

 

[matefrio]

Thanks for the post.

A discussion of the end goals needs to be called and progressive steps to get there or a plan needs to be made. Any positive discussion of such is good.