Randy Weaver 74 RIP

[Axxe55]

Some claim the central state is a necessary evil.

They are half right.

It isn't necessary.

IMO, the ATF is an arbitrary agency that has no useful purpose anymore, if they ever did in the first place.

The Waco Massacre was simply because of the Ruby Ridge fiasco, and the ATF was fearful that they might be disbanded because of it. So they needed a "win" in the court of public opinion to save their agency. Several of the bad actors at Ruby Ridge were also at Waco.

After the Waco fiasco, that entire agency whould have been disbanded and everyone in the agency that was involved should have been fired, and many should have been prosecuted. I suspect Janet Reno was instrumental in protecting the agents involved at Waco.

 

[BigRed]

IMO, the ATF is an arbitrary agency that has no useful purpose anymore, if they ever did in the first place.

The Waco Massacre was simply because of the Ruby Ridge fiasco, and the ATF was fearful that they might be disbanded because of it. So they needed a "win" in the court of public opinion to save their agency. Several of the bad actors at Ruby Ridge were also at Waco.

After the Waco fiasco, that entire agency whould have been disbanded and everyone in the agency that was involved should have been fired, and many should have been prosecuted. I suspect Janet Reno was instrumental in protecting the agents involved at Waco.

And yet they were not.

 

[CaliGunner]

Indeed. Rip mr. weaver. Very few will understand you and the trauma of seeing your family murdered.

He made a stand against government hit men who would later be a part of killing more children at Waco.

Timothy McVeigh noted this incident as being one that pushed him over the edge to start planning the OKC bombing (along with Waco).

 

[Sam7sf]

Timothy McVeigh noted this incident as being one that pushed him over the edge to start planning the OKC bombing (along with Waco).

Yes it was and unfortunately so. I sympathize with weaver not with mcveigh. Not saying you implied that; just commenting.

Timothy wasn’t stupid. Most people with any form of intelligence can reason certain means of destruction will kill those that did nothing to you.

 

[CaliGunner]

Yes it was and unfortunately so. I sympathize with weaver not with mcveigh. Not saying you implied that; just commenting.

Timothy wasn’t stupid. Most people with any form of intelligence can reason certain means of destruction will kill those that did nothing to you.

I don't agree with McVeigh's methods, he killed children (though he did say in an interview he would not have targeted the federal building had he known there would be a daycare on premises, whether you believe him or not).

But I did agree with his overall perception of government overreach, and the government becoming too invasive and controlling in normal citizens lives. As we've seen over the past couple of decades since Ruby Ridge, it's only gotten worse. They're creating a Ministry of Truth for fucks sake.

 

[oldag]

IMO, the ATF is an arbitrary agency that has no useful purpose anymore, if they ever did in the first place.

The Waco Massacre was simply because of the Ruby Ridge fiasco, and the ATF was fearful that they might be disbanded because of it. So they needed a "win" in the court of public opinion to save their agency. Several of the bad actors at Ruby Ridge were also at Waco.

After the Waco fiasco, that entire agency whould have been disbanded and everyone in the agency that was involved should have been fired, and many should have been prosecuted. I suspect Janet Reno was instrumental in protecting the agents involved at Waco.

Nailed it.

The ATF wanted a big publicity splash to help their image. Well, they got it...

Vernon Howell could have been arrested without incident by the sheriff during one of Howell's solo visits to town which he took each week. Had been done before. But no, that would not have made the headlines.