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Recently Confused...please help

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  • GM.Chief

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    This is GM's wife.....don't know if this is the right forum....mods feel free to move.

    Went to a survival/disaster meeting. There were three speakers who spoke for about 15 minutes each, and then we could walk around the room and talk to different people at the various booths. One speaker spoke very quickly about guns.....and this is what I was sorta kinda able to figure out...so if any one could put the pieces together and tell me if this is Hariis county, or all of Texas or what?


    He said something about how we're lucky to be in Texas where we can carry concealed. Then he said that if you grab your gun, put it by the console in your car, stop to get a paper at the store, lay it on top of the gun...the gun is now concealed. Then he said that Texas has made it very easy for police now, and they will just give you the ticket or arrest you, instead of trying to figure out if you're breaking the law or not, and you can just go the the courthouse and talk to the judge about it. THen he said something about you have to say you were traveling, which means more than two counties.

    So...you can see my confusion. Is he saying it's legal to carry in your car, but only if concealed? Only if not concealed? Not legal at all? Legal, but if the police pull you over, you'll still need to go to court for it? Concealed in the car but only with license? Only when travelling?

    If anyone can clear this whole thing up for me..or point me in the direction of the actual law, that would be very helpful.

    Thanks,
    April
    Guns International
     

    Texas1911

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    It's kinda grey.

    The law originally stated it was OK to carry in your car so long as the gun was concealed and you were traveling. So, you'd have to prove that you were traveling to the LEO, or judge if you get arrested.

    Then came the Motorist's Protection Act, which redefined your place of residence to your car, motorhome, etc. which basically allowed concealed handguns to be in your car without the entire traveling clause.

    The problem is that the law can still be interpreted in various ways, and some LEOs will just arrest you outright. In the long term, you probably won't be hassled about it in most areas, but it's best to get your CHL to avoid the hassle.

    It was HB 1815 if I recall correctly.
     

    ctxpta

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    This is specifically under PC Unlawful Carrying Weapon: If you DO NOT have a CHL you MUST be in your own motor vehicle or vehicle under your control the handgun MUST be concealed and the OFFICER has to make the determination that a)you are NOT committing any criminal act other than a class c traffic violation. b)Prohibited by law from possessing a firearm c)you are NOT in a known gang............abbreviated

    Yes if you cover the handgun with a paper it is concealed if someone can not tell with 100 percent certainty there is a gun under it...could it be a cell phone, wallet etc???

    The problem with this law and Harris county and even to a degree Travis is the DA's have implied or even stated that the OFFICER can't make the judgment calls listed above on a traffic stop. SO they are arresting the driver impounding the car (and the weapon). They are making the rules of getting the weapon back very difficult.

    Hope this helps.
     

    ctxpta

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    If you have a CHL then this law is irrelevant as LONG as you are following the rules and regs of having a CHL. this law is specifically for those without CHL. The legislature tried 4 years ago to make travelling a given and not a have to prove and that didn't work. 2 years ago they went this route to try to give us (non-chl) the ability to protect ourselves in our own vehicles.
     

    GM.Chief

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    That was my thought. My understanding was that it is 100% legal (stating you are allowed to own a gun in the first place) to have a gun in the car CHL or no CHL. My understanding was , however, that it had to be completely CONCEALED. Am I now to understand that I cannot have one in the car to defend myself from a carjacking?
     

    SIG_Fiend

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    That was my thought. My understanding was that it is 100% legal (stating you are allowed to own a gun in the first place) to have a gun in the car CHL or no CHL. My understanding was , however, that it had to be completely CONCEALED. Am I now to understand that I cannot have one in the car to defend myself from a carjacking?

    You can. It's just one of those things where, if the officer is a real jerk there is always the possibility they could cause trouble for you. Legally, according to the letter of the law, it is entirely 100% legal provided you are doing so within the regulations (concealed, not a gang member, etc). Worst case, if you did happen to become one of the unlucky ones that gets a jerk officer that arrests you and you end up in court, the letter of the law will legally exonerate you and you now have grounds for a civil suit IMO which I would fully and ruthlessly take advantage of. ;) If someone wants to try to prosecute you for legally exercising your rights, I would use all legal means available to punish them severely for it so they never forget. If enough of that happened, there would be plenty of apparent incentive that such hassles would probably become significantly less common.
     

    GM.Chief

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    If its concealed, how will they know its there?!


    And my thought is....if that's the line of thinking....why not do illegal things....if they are concealed, how will they know you're doing it? I"m not saying that protecting yourself is illegal or akin to it, I"m just saying, I think I'll go ahead and get my CHL and not worry about it.

    April

    PS...I suppose I should start using the username GM set up for me, huh? lol
     

    JKTex

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    Out of all the times this has been discussed, I don't think anyone has made a good case to refute the law. Nor do I recall anyone ever coming up with an instance where a person legally in possession of a concealed hand gun in their car was arrested for unlawful carry.

    As an aside, you do not have any obligation to tell an LEO that you have a gun in the car unless you're a CHL holder. So unless you just want to tell them, or they have cause to search, they'll never know and in most cases, it's best that way. If they have reason to search, it's likely you aren't legally in possession of the gun anyway so we don't care, enjoy jail.

    But I think the law is pretty clear, and an LEO will have a hard time justifying an arrest for unlawful carry unless those conditions above are met. That the whole purpose of HB1815.
     

    Eli

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    I've been over this before.
    The old law was that it was a defense to prosecution that you were "traveling". Not an affirmative defense either.
    The current law is that it is nonapplicable, meaning that it is specifically not against the law. A cop arresting you for a pistol in the car, as allowed by law, is facing a lot of trouble himself now.
    You can look up the statute, I'm too tired to right now. But Chuck Rosenthal was told by the AG that he'd be disbarred and prosecuted if he followed his 'ruling' that it was still illegal - thankfully that POS is gone!

    Eli
     

    riverara

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    And my thought is....if that's the line of thinking....why not do illegal things....if they are concealed, how will they know you're doing it? I"m not saying that protecting yourself is illegal or akin to it, I"m just saying, I think I'll go ahead and get my CHL and not worry about it.

    April

    PS...I suppose I should start using the username GM set up for me, huh? lol

    Like you said, carrying in your car w/o a CHL is not illegal. So that point is moot.

    But lets say you do get your CHL (which I do recommend), and you are accidentally printing. According to the law, your not in any trouble as long as you arent printing on purpose. But lets say you get a jerk cop who wants to arrest you anyways. Now your back at square 1! So why even get a CHL or carry a gun at all? Get my point?

    Right now I am waiting on my plastic. So other than my house, my car is the only other place that our state feels I have the right to defend myself and my family properly.
     

    MAPS1350

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    This is GM.chief's wife...got onto my own SN.

    I get what everyone is saying......but let's look at this from a practical POV of a very busy mother. (making this point as it sounds like it'll be awhile to wait for CHL after we take the course).

    Let's say it's compeltely within my rights to carry in my car without CHL. For whatever reason, I get pulled over, LEO asks about a possible weapon, and I, not usually able to lie off the top of my head for ANYTHING (I've yet to learn tact or the ability to say little white lies), not to mention the fact that it wouldn't occur to me to actually challenge a LEO, say "yes". He happens to be the not to nice type and decides he wants to cause trouble for me. I"m in Harris county.....which is about 2 miles from my home and not too hard to get to. I spend most of my time int he Woodlands.

    Now.....my kids are in foster care, I"m in jail...wherever that is, I"d assume houston.....DH (GM.chief) is now on a plane coming back home to at least get the kids and bring them home (so now we are out however much money since he's taking off work)....the car is impounded.....and neither the dogs, cat, ducks, or my brother have anyone to feed them! lol

    Get MY point? ALright...so it's not illegal, per se. But if Harris county LEOs are known for arresting now and asking questions later, it seems like a HUGE risk to my whole family to carry without a CHL. DH says that he'll risk it when he's home and carry his in the car. I believe he's a bit peeved about this whole thing. BUt I've got too much to do to be dealing with spending a day or two wrapped up in getting arrested, not to mention trying to prove myself to a judge for the court date.


    Thanks again for the replies.
    April
     

    a44mag4dave

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    I agree it would be a hassle to get arrested, but look on the other hand. Heaven forbid that GM has to come home to take care of funeral arrangements because some punk decided to carjack your vehicle. I know its not likely to happen, but it does. I am overseas and I would hate for something to happen to my wife. She does protect herself and she knows the hassle she may face one day because of it, to us it would be well worth it, the safety of my family is well worth the hassle. Just my . Stepping off my box...LOL
     

    riverara

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    MAPS / GMs wife...
    I go through that thought process all the time. I have 3 kids all under the age of 4. Im always weighing my options when it comes to things like this.

    For example...showing your receipt at walmart on the way out. You dont have to and it always bugs me when they ask. So if Im by myself, I wont show them. Ill just politely say "No Thanks!" and keep walking. But if Im with the family, I dont want my 3 small kids to have to wait any longer than need be because I dont want to show my reciept. I will give up the right to that little bit of privacy for some convience.

    But when it comes to safety, I usually put safety first. Its just a choice that each individual has to make.

    And to go back to my last question. Say you have your CHL and are accidentally printing and jerk cop wants to arrest you anyways. Your kids are still with the state, your husband is still coming home on that plane, etc. Where do we draw the line? That is the question only you can answer.
     

    MAPS1350

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    I know that either way, there's a chance that I could get in trouble for printing, or whatever, with a not so nice LEO. I've gone round and round with GM about this. This is still my point....

    while he (and most of ya'll too), state that I don't have to tell an LEO if I have one, why would it ever occur to a law abiding citizen to lie to an LEO in the first place? While I understand they need reason to ask, or to search, and I'll most likely never provide anywhere near the reason for them to do that, let's say I did.....let's say I got a jerk, and it was 9am when I"m the "highest" off my morning coffee, with the kids all going wild in the car, and I look mighty suspicious. When really I"m just annoyed at having been pulled over and eager to get on with my day.....like shopping with 4 kids, or going to gynmastics, again, or one of the other many things I do everyday. SO he asks....I would automatically confess. WHy? Because law abiding citizens don't have that "lie to the pigs" mentality. And up until this thread got started, I actually have never feared LEOs....they were my ally. THey protected and served me....because I"m not the bad guy.

    I've been worried about carrying because I don't dress to baggy. But at least if I carry and have a license to do so, I'll feel a bit more confident in my abilty to carry. You must understand, we're still somewhat new to texas and I really thought that it was much more gun friendly. I never thought I could possibly get in trouble for carrying in my car. And while I've heard a lot of folks on here talk and tlak and talk about how they are gonna stand up to "the man" about this or that or the other thing....how they have the biggest baddest gun around and it'll shoot a dinner plate through a lightpole.......you must understand, I"m a girl. And a newbie gun owner girl, at that. And most of the other newbie girls I"ve met are completely turned off by that biggest baddest attitude of more experienced gun owners. In fact, I"ve seen time and again men turn women AWAY from guns simply because they don't realize we're different.

    For you women on the board....I"m sure you understand that I will eventually carry in my car.....but I need a bit of time to adjust my thinking on this one. I feel uncomfortable and nervous, which would make me a worse driver, which would make me an easier target from LEOs. Not to mention, any nervous energy, no matter how small, will convey to the rest of the world...and it'll will make me an easier target for the bad guys as well. SO now I'm more likely to have to use my gun under nervousness.

    I'll get over it....but for now....I"m happy that if I had to use it, I know how......I went to the range to check out my skills for the CHL test....tested at 94%. Not bad.

    April
     
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