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Regarding HB1815 in TX Metro Areas

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  • Hoji

    Bowling-Pin Commando
    Rating - 100%
    36   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    17,700
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    Mustang Ridge
    About what? They can only enforce the law.


    You know what,if when you were on the job you ONLY enforced the law, then kudos to you. But for you to say that all LEOs are like that is just disingenous.

    You know damn good and well that people are hooked up all the time for failing the attitude test and nothing else.

    You also know damned good and well that departments will take leads fron D.A.'a offices, depending on the political climate of the city in question, and in a big department , where politics are king, the officer on the street will obey a questionable directive from his/her chief because they need the job and do not want to make waves.

    Please quit being such an apologist.



    Oh, and Merry Christmas to you Tx.
     

    JKTex

    Well-Known
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    0   0   0
    Mar 11, 2008
    2,011
    31
    DFW, North Texas
    You know what,if when you were on the job you ONLY enforced the law, then kudos to you. But for you to say that all LEOs are like that is just disingenous.

    You know damn good and well that people are hooked up all the time for failing the attitude test and nothing else.

    You also know damned good and well that departments will take leads fron D.A.'a offices, depending on the political climate of the city in question, and in a big department , where politics are king, the officer on the street will obey a questionable directive from his/her chief because they need the job and do not want to make waves.

    Please quit being such an apologist.



    Oh, and Merry Christmas to you Tx.


    Well, you did ask a silly question. He tried to answer it best anyone could and it's logical. The discussion so far has been for grins since it's all going back to before the law was changed and about people who offered their opinion about something they no longer are involved with.

    If it's a serious question, ask the only ones that can give you an answer. Knock on Montgomery County's door and ask. :p
     

    txinvestigator

    TGT Addict
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    0   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    14,204
    96
    Ft Worth, TX
    You know what,if when you were on the job you ONLY enforced the law, then kudos to you. But for you to say that all LEOs are like that is just disingenous.

    You know damn good and well that people are hooked up all the time for failing the attitude test and nothing else.

    You also know damned good and well that departments will take leads fron D.A.'a offices, depending on the political climate of the city in question, and in a big department , where politics are king, the officer on the street will obey a questionable directive from his/her chief because they need the job and do not want to make waves.

    Please quit being such an apologist.



    Oh, and Merry Christmas to you Tx.

    Please stop calling me an apologists. You are even misuing the damn word.

    If a LEO arrests for something that he knows is not illegal, he can be charged with Federal and State crimes. You are not going to get arrested for carrying legally. Period.

    Had you any experience we could discuss this. But you do not. Good grief
     

    Hoji

    Bowling-Pin Commando
    Rating - 100%
    36   0   0
    May 28, 2008
    17,700
    96
    Mustang Ridge
    If a LEO arrests for something that he knows is not illegal, he can be charged with Federal and State crimes.

    Yeah. That happens alot;). All it takes to make the arrest valid is to call it Public Intoxication. No Blood , Breath , or Urine test required for 12-24hours in the pokey, just good old "officer discretion"

    How do I know? Personal experience. I failed the attitude test and did not grovel appropiately and found myself in jail for the night for PI{ I had had NOTHING to drink}

    I did beat the charge in court but it still cost me 3 days of work and nothing happened to the officer who made the bogus arrest.


    But you know this happens all the time, and if you deny it then .............
     

    Eli

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    3   0   0
    Dec 28, 2008
    2,047
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    Ghettohood - SW Houston
    IIRC Chuckie stated he would order arrests for UCW continue for people found with handguns in their cars. Then the AG told him that he (Chuckie) would be disbarred if it occurred.
    Why?
    Because the old law was that it was "a defense" (maybe an "affirmative defense") to prosecution. The new law stated it was nonapplicable, meaning UCW absolutely does not apply to handguns in cars. A lot of cops misunderstood the change as well.
    And FYI non-warrant arrests in Harris County generally occur only when approved by the DA's office, the officers call in. BTDT

    Eli
     

    blazer

    Member
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    Dec 12, 2008
    63
    1
    San Antonio
    I looked at the regulation pretty closely back in 2007 as I do not have a CHL. (it is now pending {Day 46 of my 60 day wait} I traveled to places like Laredo, Brownsville, and was concerned so I began to carry in my car. To my understanding, and I am no expert of legalese... a weapon can be concealed in your car and carried from a vicinity "within your control" (home or apartment) to your car if it is lawful for you to own a gun and if you are not in the process of comitting a crime. I was worried about the ramifications of being arrested and the police having the stance of "let the DA sort it out". In 40 years, I've had maybe 2 or 3 speeding tickets and never had an officer do anything but as for license, registration, or insurance. I have begun to keep my insurance in my visor instead of the glove box. I did read where someone said " better judged by a jury of 12 than carried by six". IMHO, Alot of these scnarios are "worst case" and one would have to REALLY be a smart aleck or disrespectful in order to get arrested for this. I do know someone who said something he shouldn't have to an officer and he spent months trying to clear it up in Comal County. The charges were dropped, but a policeman friend of mine said that the officers sent him on "the ride" because of his being a "smart A..."
     
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    0   0   0
    Nov 21, 2008
    65
    1
    Friendswood, TX
    I had the opportunity to meet with Pat Lykos prior to the election and prior to TSRA taking the unprecedented action of endorsing a candidate for district attorney. Judge Lykos is honest, doesn't have a political agenda of her own and is a strong supporter of gun rights. I am convinced she will not play games with people and she won't like the "you may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride" attitude, either in her on office or with any law enforcment agencies referring cases to her office. Had we not been absolutely convinced of these facts, we would never have endorsed her for Harris County District Attorney.

    With the number of TSRA members we have in Harris County, the mailing that went to members probably made the difference in the election. Judge Lykos was one of very few Republicans that won an election in Harris County; it was a Democratic sweep much like the Republican sweeps in the 1990s.

    Maybe a little history on how HB1815 came to be filed may useful. For over 100 years, various courts throughout Texas virtually begged the Legislature to define the "traveling" defense to a charge of unlawfully carrying a weapon (UCW). In 2005, the Legislature finally responded by passing HB823 that made two significant changes in Texas law. First, it established a presumption that a person was "traveling" if they were in a private motor vehicle, were not engaged in criminal activity other than Class C traffic violations, were not prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law, were not a member of a criminal street gang as defined in Tex. Penal Code Chp. 71, and were not carrying the handgun in plain view. (These safeguards are also seen in HB1815.)

    HB823 also amended TPC §2.05 by adding a new subsection (b) establishing an entirely new requirement for application of presumptions that are created by statute, as opposed to those created by case law or common law. (This was hughly significant and apparently totally lost on former Harris County DA, Chuck Rosenthal.)

    Chuck Rosenthal dispised HB823. He tried to kill it and when he couldn't, he vowed to get Governor Perry to veto it. Again he failed, so he began a media campaign to bar practical application of HB823. At some point in this process, the House sponsor of HB823 (Chairman Terry Keel) put a statement of legislative intent in the Official House Journal stating the goals of the bill included the avoidance of innocement citizens being arrested. Rosenthal appeared on TV and radio news programs, and gave newspaper interviews, blatantly stating that "nothing has changed, and this presumption is just like the 'presumption of innocence' we rebut every day." This was a lie and it ignored the express language of TPC §2.05(b) that establishes very specific requirements for rebutting any statutorily established presumptions. More importantly from a political view however, Rosenthal's actions, as well as those of DA's around the State that followed his lead, infuriated many Texas House Members and Senators who took a dim view of an elected DA flaunting his disdain for the Texas Legislature.

    Rosenthal also directed law enforcement agencies in Harris County to continue arresting everyone who was found to have a handgun in their cars, if they did not have a CHL. There was a lengthy discussion on www.TexasCHLforum.com as to whether any DA had to authority to direct LEO agencies in this manner. Some even claimed Rosenthal never the attempt. While no district attorney can force a LEO agency to do anything, the reality of the close working relationship means agencies will follow the DA's instruction/recommendations/requests or whatever you wish to call them. Newspaper articles and a press release from the Houston Police Department were quoted and linked in the thread on this subject on TexasCHLforum.com proving that Rosenthal had given such instructions and that police agencies were following his recommendations.

    Rosehthal's ill-fated quest had a direct impact on the wording of HB1815. As noted above, he and his followers, as well as police departments following his instructions to continue making UCW arrests, primed the Texas Legislature to fix this problem once and for all. During one meeting, the statement was made, "we want this fixed, we want it fixed for good, and we don't ever want to have to deal with this issue again. How do we do it?" In short, the Legislature was mad, really mad.

    The answer to the "how" question was actually quite simple; change the offense itself and don't bother with exceptions or defenses. So HB1815 changed the general prohibition on possession of handguns found in TPC §46.02 so that it is no longer unlawful to possess a handgun in your car or one under your control. In order to get it passed, we had to create a new offense of carrying a handgun in your car if you are engaged in criminal activity other than traffic, if you are phohibited from possession firearms under state or federal law, if the handgun is in plain view, or if you are a member of a criminal street gang as defined in TPC Chp. 71.

    So today it is no more illegal to have a handgun in your car than it is to shake hands with someone. As a very general statement with exceptions, a LEO cannot be prosecuted or sued (Section 1983 violation) for making an unlawful arrest, if it was made in good faith. However, a good faith arrest cannot be made for that which is not unlawful. Arresting a non-CHL solely for having a handgun in their car is a very risky endeavor. "I was only following orders" didn't work in Nurmberg and it won't work in this setting either.

    Sorry for the long post and I hope it helps put the history of the "traveling" and "car-carry" bills in perspective. BTW, don't be surprised to see some attempt made to weaken or even gut the "Motorist Protection Act" during the 2009 Legislative Session. If it gets filed, you can bet CLEAT will strongly support it.

    Chas.
     

    txinvestigator

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    Yeah. That happens alot;). All it takes to make the arrest valid is to call it Public Intoxication. No Blood , Breath , or Urine test required for 12-24hours in the pokey, just good old "officer discretion"

    How do I know? Personal experience. I failed the attitude test and did not grovel appropiately and found myself in jail for the night for PI{ I had had NOTHING to drink}

    I did beat the charge in court but it still cost me 3 days of work and nothing happened to the officer who made the bogus arrest.


    But you know this happens all the time, and if you deny it then .............


    It does not "happen all of the time". Nothing will happen to such an officer if you simply get a chip on your shoulder and rant on the internet about your alleged "mistreatment".
     
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