Reloading 9mm semi auto ammo recipe? Heavy coated bullet question.

[@TX_1]

I've been reloading since I as 12 (shot shells then). Reloaded revolver ammo, never ever had a problem.
Recently I decided to buy a 9mm pistol for carry purposes.
Bought some nickel plated Barnes brass (wall thickness is more than my brass 9mm cases) and some 9mm RDFP 147 gr .356 dia. polymer coated Blue Bullets for a heavy load.
This is complicated by a timing and pressure issue with slick polymer coated bullets.
Found a recipe for using (3.5 gr) Clean Shot (very good pistol choice from my past). It fired fine, but did not extract (suspect too little pressure) in my Kiger 9-C. Yes, all pistol manufacturers discourage reloads, but that is what I do. smile.
The short case, slam firing, and strong return spring has complicated my testing.

1. Any suggestions in bullet seating and crimping settings on lead polymer coated bullets.

2. Any suggestions on hotter powder, have Accurate no. 5 (And have HS-6 , Universal, and Unique powder on hand).

3. I've have a recipe for Accurate no. 5 with the specific Blue Bullets 146 gr .356 dia. RDFP bullets at max 5.2gr (990 fps) pressure 35,000 psi (Source: Blue Bullets)

I really like the pistol I bought, it shoots FMJ 115 factory loads perfectly. Very impressive, but has strong return spring on the slide assy.

If I cannot make the Blue Bullets work, I can always load JHP, have no doubt that would work (and bullet seating would be less complicated).

I am still cautious about matching cylinder diameter to crimp load diameter. Did that before I tried the test loads I have already shot.

 

[TexMex247]

I like titegroup with all weights of 9mm bullets but I've gotten away from loading coated or lead. I run a few polygonal barrels and coated bullets are just too damn smokey, especially with titegroup. My current go-to is 135gr Xtreme plated over 3.8-3.9 gr titegroup, it stays subsonic but runs a variety of nines well. My old standard was a 124gr plated over 4.1 gr titegroup. For 147s I believe I went as low as 3.3 but it's fairly sluggish so I'll probably bump them to 3.4 or 3.5.

As far as seating, I like the Lee FCD. It applies a good taper crimp and won't pierce a plated jacket or coating when you dial it in right.

I've loaded plenty of 115s with AA#5 but it's been so long I forget the amount. I am interested in getting back into that powder since I've run into 6 lbs of it recently.

 

[@TX_1]

I like titegroup with all weights of 9mm bullets but I've gotten away from loading coated or lead. I run a few polygonal barrels and coated bullets are just too damn smokey, especially with titegroup. My current go-to is 135gr Xtreme plated over 3.8-3.9 gr titegroup, it stays subsonic but runs a variety of nines well. My old standard was a 124gr plated over 4.1 gr titegroup. For 147s I believe I went as low as 3.3 but it's fairly sluggish so I'll probably bump them to 3.4 or 3.5.

As far as seating, I like the Lee FCD. It applies a good taper crimp and won't pierce a plated jacket or coating when you dial it in right.

I've loaded plenty of 115s with AA#5 but it's been so long I forget the amount. I am interested in getting back into that powder since I've run into 6 lbs of it recently.

I like Accurate no. 5 a lot, it is unforgiving with some reduced loads.

Friend of mine had a scare from that. He shoots 45 long colt and thought his powder was not burning clean, he saw me shot my 357. So he tried Accurate no. 5, I gave him the recipe range and he liked how it shot. But he tried reducing below the minimum load, 2 steps down he got case swelling. It scared him to death. He panicked and had to drive the case out of the cylinder. He poured out the powder. smile. Head shake. He is a really nice guy, have known and hunted with him almost all of our lives. Our Great Grandfather's were best friends. He is a good shot, he has one eye. When he was a kid, he shot a paperclip on a rubber band and put out one.

The pistol I bought is somewhat a Glock clone, but I think better. But I have read that Glocks are complicated about loads.

I was looking for a way to shoot the heavy 9mm polymer coated bullets at reduced speed. I now realize the bullets are so slick that lack of friction complicates using it instead of jacketed bullets. Some have decided that copper plated bullets gets around that issue.

So it is an issue of bullet resistance, bullet weight, return spring tension, powder burn speed and bases qualities, and very close tolerance on case sizing.

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[popper]

Your clean shot is about like accurate #2, close to W231/hp38. I use W231 or WST for my 135gr coated in 9mm (make my own) no problems and works fine (XDs9). Is your only problem extraction? As for seating, use the barrel and a plunk test to find acceptable seating depth. I use the RCBS taper crimp of the seater die, back out the stem for crimp in a separate step. Set the die so it doesn't crimp, seat all bullets. Back out the stem and then crimp all the loads. If you get leading/keyhole or bad accuracy, verify the commercial bullets are sized right for YOUR gun. Yes, I use my loads for SD/carry and don't worry about it. New guns need some break-in before they cycle right, run it wet!

 

[@TX_1]

Your clean shot is about like accurate #2, close to W231/hp38. I use W231 or WST for my 135gr coated in 9mm (make my own) no problems and works fine (XDs9). Is your only problem extraction? As for seating, use the barrel and a plunk test to find acceptable seating depth. I use the RCBS taper crimp of the seater die, back out the stem for crimp in a separate step. Set the die so it doesn't crimp, seat all bullets. Back out the stem and then crimp all the loads. If you get leading/keyhole or bad accuracy, verify the commercial bullets are sized right for YOUR gun. Yes, I use my loads for SD/carry and don't worry about it. New guns need some break-in before they cycle right, run it wet!

"New guns need some break-in before they cycle right, run it wet!"

Yes, I have read that and it makes a lot of sense. That might be another missing part of my effort.

Thank you, sir.

 

[TexMex247]

Throughout my 9mm reloading adventure I went from trying numerous coated and lead bullets, plated and fmj. Used probably only 3 or 4 powders. The titegroup stains the brass outside the case mouth from its fast burn rate but it's clean and cycles gun reliably throughout most typical charge ranges. However I found out it tends to vaporize the base of lead bullets as they're shot and doesn't play well with coated bullets either.

After way too much cleaning effort getting bullet lube out of my dies after loading lead, I've decided they aren't worth the pennies saved. In most cases I wasn't saving more than 2 cents a shot, at that rate I would need to shoot a lot more for it to matter. Now I have a healthy stock of plated, mostly Berry's and xtreme. I still use coated and lead in the colt 45 but that's it.

As far as your bullet diameter, my guns tend to like the slight oversize. I get better accuracy and no pressure signs or heavy copper in my barrels. I've gone through several bullets sold as 38 super projectiles and my nines eat em' up. Of course I do have a 38 super so no harm if they didn't run well.

 

[@TX_1]

Your clean shot is about like accurate #2, close to W231/hp38. I use W231 or WST for my 135gr coated in 9mm (make my own) no problems and works fine (XDs9). Is your only problem extraction? As for seating, use the barrel and a plunk test to find acceptable seating depth. I use the RCBS taper crimp of the seater die, back out the stem for crimp in a separate step. Set the die so it doesn't crimp, seat all bullets. Back out the stem and then crimp all the loads. If you get leading/keyhole or bad accuracy, verify the commercial bullets are sized right for YOUR gun. Yes, I use my loads for SD/carry and don't worry about it. New guns need some break-in before they cycle right, run it wet!

"As for seating, use the barrel and a plunk test to find acceptable seating depth. I use the RCBS taper crimp of the seater die, back out the stem for crimp in a separate step."

I plunk tested from beginning, after I tested I checked against factory fresh nickel plated brass, it was easily within the chamber size. But I used case expander to assist the .356" dia. coated lead cast bullets, then crimped. The bullet seating die has the capability to taper crimp. I might have overdone that. But was considering the thicker brass on the nickel plated cases.

Next time I will try to seat the bullets without the expander and try the Accurate no 5 recipe. I've found that precision is more critical on the bullet/case point on semi auto reloads.

If I don't succeed with that I will try using plane brass cases. I bought both.

If that fails I will get some Hornady 9mm XTP bullets and I know that will work with the right load.

The polymer coated Blue Bullets reduce the recoil on heavy bullets because of reduced friction. The reduced recoil will affect the ejection process. That will change from gun to gun. But there is a pressure limit that limits how hot you can load the ammo.

 

[@TX_1]

Throughout my 9mm reloading adventure I went from trying numerous coated and lead bullets, plated and fmj. Used probably only 3 or 4 powders. The titegroup stains the brass outside the case mouth from its fast burn rate but it's clean and cycles gun reliably throughout most typical charge ranges. However I found out it tends to vaporize the base of lead bullets as they're shot and doesn't play well with coated bullets either.

After way too much cleaning effort getting bullet lube out of my dies after loading lead, I've decided they aren't worth the pennies saved. In most cases I wasn't saving more than 2 cents a shot, at that rate I would need to shoot a lot more for it to matter. Now I have a healthy stock of plated, mostly Berry's and xtreme. I still use coated and lead in the colt 45 but that's it.

As far as your bullet diameter, my guns tend to like the slight oversize. I get better accuracy and no pressure signs or heavy copper in my barrels. I've gone through several bullets sold as 38 super projectiles and my nines eat em' up. Of course I do have a 38 super so no harm if they didn't run well.

Thanks again.

 

[sparkyv]

I’ve been reloading for a decade, including 9mm with coated cast bullets, but reading this thread is making my head hurt!

 

[vmax]

Do I understand correctly you are loading lead bullets for defensive carry?
That's a different bullet than I would guess for self defense when there are aloy of JHP bullets out there for sale
Anyway..it's just something that stuck out when I read your post.

My apologies if I misread

 

[Texasjack]

I like coated bullets and use them a lot for target loads. I have found my best accuracy with 125 grain bullets, and I like Longshot or CFE-Pistol. I used to use PowerPistol, and they used to advertise that the military used their powder for their 9 mms. I think every commercial manufacturer has moved to blended powders, so you don't see Alliant bragging about that anymore.

 

[@TX_1]

I’ve been reloading for a decade, including 9mm with coated cast bullets, but reading this thread is making my head hurt!

 

[@TX_1]

I've reloaded since I was a kid. Never put much thought to things that are important in semi auto ammo. Especially to S-A pistol ammo. Each manufacturer has their own cycling system. Even between models of their pistols. The slam type is more sensitive to that, from what I have read.

9mm case is small, in relation to projectile. That has to be allowed for.

barrels are short in pistols, some more than others. That has to be allowed for.

Type of projectile jacketed, cast plated plated and cast coated affects the pressure. The coated cast lead bullets have less friction and with same powder load will not have as high a pressure.

This can affect cycling.

Even seating of bullet is critical with the slam type cycling. The seating that I found when I loaded my first load (Clean Shot) was 1.16" OAL. When I looked up the seating for using Accurate no. 5 the OAL was shown at 1.145". Both will work for action and magazine, but the shape of the bullet from chamber to throat is not always the same. It does not make sense, but I think all of that is important. And depending upon the gun, it is not universal.

By trying 147 gr polymer coated bullets, I thought I could overcome the high velocity characteristic of 9mm ammo. Make it safer if I was in a urban area.

I'm probably over thinking it, but I am just like that. smile.

 

[@TX_1]

Do I understand correctly you are loading lead bullets for defensive carry?
That's a different bullet than I would guess for self defense when there are aloy of JHP bullets out there for sale
Anyway..it's just something that stuck out when I read your post.

My apologies if I misread

My thought was to lower velocity with larger bullets. I suspect most people shoot 115 gr or 124 gr jacketed bullets. Most of them are FMJ and they are pretty high velocity. That may be because of the cycling of the auto eject/load mechanism. Recoil drives it.

I did not think the 147 gr bullet, especially coated lead bullet, would have that much effect on the eject/load action.

My revolver is much simpler, it will shoot whatever I feed her.

 

[@TX_1]

Do I understand correctly you are loading lead bullets for defensive carry?
That's a different bullet than I would guess for self defense when there are aloy of JHP bullets out there for sale
Anyway..it's just something that stuck out when I read your post.

My apologies if I misread

I got my shipment from MidSouth Shooters a couple of days ago. In it was box of Hornady 9mm 147 gr XTP hollow point bullets, some Starline 9mm brass, and a Lee 9mm Taper Crimp Die.

I loaded up a magazine with the 9mm Starline brass and Hornady XTP bullets with 5 gr of Accurate no. 5

And loaded up a magazine with MagTech 9mm brass, the 147gr .356 Blue Bullets with 5 gr of Accurate no. 5

I used the new seating die on the Starline brass load.

Both function totally perfect. And they are accurate.

After all of this I found an article about crimping for 9mm ammo that I bookmarked long ago.

Taper Crimp: Everything you need to know (Excellent Article!)

Taper Crimp: Everything you need to know

Taper Crimp: Everything you need to know

czfirearms.us

It hit right to the heart of this. And today I was on Powder Valley's website, where they asked me to review my purchases. I read my review and oddly enough there was another person who commented about problems with the heavier nickle plated Barnes brass. (I think it was made by Remington) I'm confident when I load the Hornady XTP bullets in the Barnes brass it will work perfect also.

Thank all of you for your help. I'm confident the problem is solved.