Request hearing for CHL?

Shorts

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Mar 28, 2008
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I read over on another forum about filing a hearing for not receiving a written notice by DPS informing one that their time line would be exceeding stated times.

Anyone hear of such a thing or done such a thing? Is that an actual legal step that can be taken?


And lets not drag this offtrack with an us v them slant and get panties twisted over sides.

I want answers and someone to be held accountable for the CHL process. As it is now, I don't matter. I have no voice. At the mercy of the system. Well if it is the system that is the reason, then it will be system that rattles the cage.
 

txinvestigator

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May 28, 2008
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Ft Worth, TX
I read over on another forum about filing a hearing for not receiving a written notice by DPS informing one that their time line would be exceeding stated times.
Here are the laws; [url]http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/SOTWDocs/GV/htm/GV.411.htm#H[/URL]


See 411.180 for hearing information if you are denied, suspended or revoked.

I see no such procedure if DPS fails to notify you in writing within the 90 days that "unable to make a determination regarding the issuance or denial of a license to the applicant .........and include in that notification an explanation of the reason for the inability and an estimation of the amount of time the department will need to make the determination".


Did/has it taken DPS over 90 days for your license. Did they fail to notify you?
 

Shorts

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99 days from PIN letter date.

As far as I know they've got everything they need to complete the task. But I don't know. I haven't been told anything else.




"Processing Application" means what online?


Edit, wait wait, I shouldn't be jumping down your throat. It not you that my irritation should go to. I read what I wanted to read and not what was written. Apologies TxInvestigator
 

Shorts

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I wanted this here so I can read it and for the benefit of reference of law directly to the thread.


It appears that hearing is only after denial, revocation or suspension. Which is great for those have notice their CHL/App is one of those three. However, not what I'm looking for.


Sec. 411.180. NOTIFICATION OF DENIAL, REVOCATION, OR SUSPENSION OF LICENSE; REVIEW.



(a) The department shall give written notice to each applicant for a handgun license of any denial, revocation, or suspension of that license. Not later than the 30th day after the notice is received by the applicant, according to the records of the department, the applicant or license holder may request a hearing on the denial, revocation, or suspension. The applicant must make a written request for a hearing addressed to the department at its Austin address. The request for hearing must reach the department in Austin prior to the 30th day after the date of receipt of the written notice. On receipt of a request for hearing from a license holder or applicant, the department shall promptly schedule a hearing in the appropriate justice court in the county of residence of the applicant or license holder. The justice court shall conduct a hearing to review the denial, revocation, or suspension of the license. In a proceeding under this section, a justice of the peace shall act as an administrative hearing officer. A hearing under this section is not subject to Chapter 2001 (Administrative Procedure Act). A district attorney or county attorney, the attorney general, or a designated member of the department may represent the department.

(b) The department, on receipt of a request for hearing, shall file the appropriate petition in the justice court selected for the hearing and send a copy of that petition to the applicant or license holder at the address contained in departmental records. A hearing under this section must be scheduled within 30 days of receipt of the request for a hearing. The hearing shall be held expeditiously but in no event more than 60 days after the date that the applicant or license holder requested the hearing. The date of the hearing may be reset on the motion of either party, by agreement of the parties, or by the court as necessary to accommodate the court's docket.

(c) The justice court shall determine if the denial, revocation, or suspension is supported by a preponderance of the evidence. Both the applicant or license holder and the department may present evidence. The court shall affirm the denial, revocation, or suspension if the court determines that denial, revocation, or suspension is supported by a preponderance of the evidence. If the court determines that the denial, revocation, or suspension is not supported by a preponderance of the evidence, the court shall order the department to immediately issue or return the license to the applicant or license holder.

(d) A proceeding under this section is subject to Chapter 105, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, relating to fees, expenses, and attorney's fees.

(e) A party adversely affected by the court's ruling following a hearing under this section may appeal the ruling by filing within 30 days after the ruling a petition in a county court at law in the county in which the applicant or license holder resides or, if there is no county court at law in the county, in the county court of the county. A person who appeals under this section must send by certified mail a copy of the person's petition, certified by the clerk of the court in which the petition is filed, to the appropriate division of the department at its Austin headquarters. The trial on appeal shall be a trial de novo without a jury. A district or county attorney or the attorney general may represent the department.

(f) A suspension of a license may not be probated.

(g) If an applicant or a license holder does not petition the justice court, a denial becomes final and a revocation or suspension takes effect on the 30th day after receipt of written notice.

(h) The department may use and introduce into evidence certified copies of governmental records to establish the existence of certain events that could result in the denial, revocation, or suspension of a license under this subchapter, including records regarding convictions, judicial findings regarding mental competency, judicial findings regarding chemical dependency, or other matters that may be established by governmental records that have been properly authenticated.

(i) This section does not apply to a suspension of a license under Section 85.022, Family Code, or Article 17.292, Code of Criminal Procedure.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 10.01(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 1412, Sec. 5, eff. Sept. 1, 1999.


Perhaps I want clarity.

* PIN letter, Mar 18 - Status online has never changed from "Processing Application"


Sec. 411.176. REVIEW OF APPLICATION MATERIALS.

Parts (a) - Done. Also, is this where the PIN in generated?

Parts (b) - Done. Application caught on "The department shall send a fingerprint card to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for a national criminal history check of the applicant."


* FBI Finger Print Redo Letter, March 25 - Status online still reads "Processing Application" even after letter

What I can only gather is a result of Sec 411.176 (b). So my app went to the Director's designee, then to FBI where original prints were rejected. March 25 send a letter to Shorts telling her to redo her prints.



* Redos received in Austin, Apr 9 - Status online reads "Processing Application"

Where does my app go from Austin? Who's desk does it sit on? Director's designee again? How long does it take for him to get it? Does this restart the 60 day time limit in Sec 411.176 (b)? How long does the FBI check take? (maybe somewhere between Mar 18 - Mar 25 since that how long original prints determined to be "indiscernable").

BTW, it's been 76 days since Austin has confirmed receipt of fingerprint redos. Hopefully they got to the Director's designee in 16 days because anything past is over the 60 day limit that guy has with my app to make a recommendation to Austin. I have not received any further correspendence.


Once the Director's designee step is complete and a recommendation has been made by the Director's designee, why must it go back to Austin for: "further record check or investigation the department determines is necessary if a question exists with respect to the accuracy of the application materials or the eligibility of the applicant, except that the department shall complete the record check and investigation not later than the 180th day after the date the department receives the application materials from the applicant."?? Is that were Austin probes and prods my financial background?


Is that 180 days from PIN letter? (99) Or the date the mail got to Austin's mail box? (128)


If a recommendation has been made to approve or deny based on background checks and finger prints, how is any other information allowed to hold up the issuance of a license?


....so, tired.



Sec. 411.176. REVIEW OF APPLICATION MATERIALS.



(a) On receipt of the application materials by the department at its Austin headquarters, the department shall conduct the appropriate criminal history record check of the applicant through its computerized criminal history system. Not later than the 30th day after the date the department receives the application materials, the department shall forward the materials to the director's designee in the geographical area of the applicant's residence so that the designee may conduct the investigation described by Subsection (b).

(b) The director's designee as needed shall conduct an additional criminal history record check of the applicant and an investigation of the applicant's local official records to verify the accuracy of the application materials. The scope of the record check and the investigation are at the sole discretion of the department, except that the director's designee shall complete the record check and investigation not later than the 60th day after the date the department receives the application materials. The department shall send a fingerprint card to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for a national criminal history check of the applicant. On completion of the investigation, the director's designee shall return all materials and the result of the investigation to the appropriate division of the department at its Austin headquarters. The director's designee may submit to the appropriate division of the department, at the department's Austin headquarters, along with the application materials a written recommendation for disapproval of the application, accompanied by an affidavit stating personal knowledge or naming persons with personal knowledge of a ground for denial under Section 411.172. The director's designee in the appropriate geographical area may also submit the application and the recommendation that the license be issued. On receipt at the department's Austin headquarters of the application materials and the result of the investigation by the director's designee, the department shall conduct any further record check or investigation the department determines is necessary if a question exists with respect to the accuracy of the application materials or the eligibility of the applicant, except that the department shall complete the record check and investigation not later than the 180th day after the date the department receives the application materials from the applicant.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 10.01(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, Sec. 9.07(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1999.



Sec. 411.177. ISSUANCE OR DENIAL OF LICENSE.

(a) The department shall issue a license to carry a concealed handgun to an applicant if the applicant meets all the eligibility requirements and submits all the application materials. The department may issue a license to carry handguns only of the categories indicated on the applicant's certificate of proficiency issued under Section 411.189. The department shall administer the licensing procedures in good faith so that any applicant who meets all the eligibility requirements and submits all the application materials shall receive a license. The department may not deny an application on the basis of a capricious or arbitrary decision by the department.

(b) The department shall, not later than the 60th day after the date of the receipt by the director's designee of the completed application materials:
(1) issue the license;
(2) notify the applicant in writing that the application was denied:
(A) on the grounds that the applicant failed to qualify under the criteria listed in Section 411.172;
(B) based on the affidavit of the director's designee submitted to the department under Section 411.176(b); or
(C) based on the affidavit of the qualified handgun instructor submitted to the department under Section 411.189(c); or
(3) notify the applicant in writing that the department is unable to make a determination regarding the issuance or denial of a license to the applicant within the 60-day period prescribed by this subsection and include in that notification an explanation of the reason for the inability and an estimation of the amount of time the department will need to make the determination.
(c) Failure of the department to issue or deny a license for a period of more than 30 days after the department is required to act under Subsection (b) constitutes denial.
(d) A license issued under this subchapter is effective from the date of issuance.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 10.01(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, Sec. 9.08(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1999.



Sec. 411.178. NOTICE TO LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT. On request of a local law enforcement agency, the department shall notify the agency of the licenses that have been issued to license holders who reside in the county in which the agency is located.

Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 10.01(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 1189, Sec. 14, eff. Sept. 1, 1999.
 

txinvestigator

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May 28, 2008
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Ft Worth, TX
That's a lot, so I'll try to help you here;

DPS has 90 days from when they receive an application to issue, deny or tell you that you need a new license. The PIN has nothing to do with it, the online status has nothing to do with it.

If they reject your prints, then they did not receive a "completed" application. Your application is "on hold" pending the return of classifiable prints.

I have some interviews to get to, but when I return this evening I will try to address each of your questions.

And I learned something, or maybe remembered something reading your last post. You is a she!
 

TxEMTP69

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Sounds like from what I've read that they seem to start the clock over when you have to resubmit something (no one gets a pass to the front of the line it seems) I think it was MadMo who accidentally dropped his check from packet and took like 60 days for them to send a letter requesting the money and then had to send it back and wait
 

SIG_Fiend

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Feb 21, 2008
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All I know is, there is always the very real possibility that with the long application wait times, there is probably some applicant out there that could become the victim of a crime and possibly be killed while still waiting for their CHL approval. All it takes is one or two of those and an angry family or two at the result of such serious injury or death, and you have one massive lawsuit on your hands.
 

Shorts

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And I learned something, or maybe remembered something reading your last post. You is a she!

Ok ok, here's a free shot for all you fellas, on me: Well that explains the mood swings!

 
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